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On Hate Speech

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Re: On Hate Speech
Post by Joat42   » Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:24 pm

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Daryl wrote:I really can't get the Communistic angle, unless Relax means something different to my understanding. No one calling for a totalitarian state to nationalise the means of production.

One of the founding members have said that she and another co-founder was "trained Marxists" which somehow transform BLM into an organization with Communism as their goal :roll:.

The problem is that most people in the US don't know what Marxism is, so they just equate it with Communism.

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Re: On Hate Speech
Post by Michael Everett   » Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:59 pm

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Joat42 wrote:
Daryl wrote:The problem is that most people in the US don't know what Marxism is, so they just equate it with Communism.

Easy mistake to make. Just like equating Classical Fascism with Nazism.

Fun fact - the Roman Empire used the Faschia (a bundle of sticks tied together) to symbolize how they were stronger as individuals acting as one than they would be as individuals working individually.
The word Fascist derives from that.
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Re: On Hate Speech
Post by Relax   » Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:14 pm

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Daryl wrote:
My impression from watching news clips and reading articles was that - The BLM marchers generally were well intentioned (and multi racial), however attached to some marches there were opportunistic thugs, looters and arsonists who were just there for a rumble.
I really can't get the Communistic angle, unless Relax means something different to my understanding. No one calling for a totalitarian state to nationalise the means of production.

Ah, bolded in your post is the problem. Our media has purposefully misconstrued the two; BLM marching vrs BLM the group. Two entirely different things. Then foreign media parrots lefty USA media who initially lied for political expediency. You will note the lies immediately stopped after their guy got in the white house... :o ;) Magically it all disappeared. :oops: You think that BLM marching = BLM the group. They are not the same at all.

Yes, BLM the group is Communist. The leaders have all said so multiple times throughout their history and those in BLM that were not outright Communists have said they adhere to Marxism which is 1/4 step from full blown Communism... said history magically disappears when there are enough people chanting BLM the slogan instead of discussing BLM the group's policies. BLM the group/marching did not magically start 2 years ago... but no one outside the USA actually know this. Said policies were scrubbed about a year ago. You have to use the wayback machine to find said information anymore.

As for injustice based on skin color using numbers... which the media carefully never actually look at and foreign media sure as Hell never look at; look at the numbers, it is a complete crock and Bull. Police are less likely to shoot darker skinned people than lighter in the USA for the same crime arrest situation. There is literally no one out there saying otherwise from ANY study.

Of course anyone who thinks logically already know this as every cop knows damned well if you shoot a darker skinned human in the USA your entire career is most likely over and your family will be hounded by the mob. Now as a white dude with asian friends/family, I would like that same standard applied to me as well when interacting with cops. Now we can all argue about total number of Police shootings being too high. We all do. This was THE major reason WHY the marching took place to begin with. Marching had far more to do with Policing policy in general and not BLM the group.

PS: If you want to find out about BLM the group you have to use the time machine AKA internet archives as BLM the group have erased all references to their embarrassing Marxist/Communist policies in the last year +.

And Joat42, "your media have 'standards'".... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :idea: :idea: :idea:
Are you for real? The only Swedish standard your paid by the government media has, is, "how high should I jump" every time a government flunky looks at them. Lying via omission is how propaganda works. In Sweden the press is nothing but a PAID propaganda arm of your own government bureaucracy. Which has been controlled by single party for how many decades now? Couldn't possibly be any corruption or anything.... oh no, of course not.

The only difference between USA/Sweden is that current legacy corrupt media in the USA has stopped pretending to Lie via omission for their political affiliation, and instead just LIE outright for their affiliated political party as they do not care that it causes race riots for instance... leading to BLM marching for rapists, thieves, kidnappers, murderers, and the rare person who actually was unjustly served instead of doing what Martin Luther King did who marched for GOOD people everywhere... and said issues got fixed 50 years ago.

There are no government issues regarding skin color in the USA. Other than preferential hiring for those with more pigment in their skin for affirmative action. So, call that recompense for institutional racism in the past as it is harder for light skinned folk to get government jobs. Now many would argue that said recompense is not large enough and more restitution should happen. That is an entirely different kettle of fish.
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Re: On Hate Speech
Post by Joat42   » Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:51 pm

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Relax wrote:And Joat42, "your media have 'standards'".... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :idea: :idea: :idea:
Are you for real? The only Swedish standard your paid by the government media has, is, "how high should I jump" every time a government flunky looks at them. Lying via omission is how propaganda works. In Sweden the press is nothing but a PAID propaganda arm of your own government bureaucracy. Which has been controlled by single party for how many decades now? Couldn't possibly be any corruption or anything.... oh no, of course not.

I see you don't know how it actually works as evidenced by what you just said. I'm not particularly surprised about it either, since you tend to speak in simplistic absolutes based on faulty assumptions while telling everyone that they are wrong.

Must be getting mighty lonely on that mountain of narcissism you built for yourself.

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Re: On Hate Speech
Post by The E   » Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:49 am

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So much for Relax being someone to take seriously.

Seriously, can't we get any conservative commenters that aren't completely delusional in here?
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Re: On Hate Speech
Post by Daryl   » Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:15 am

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Sorry Relax. I did support you, but everything you have just said is easily disproved, if you look anywhere but the extreme RW conspiracy sites.
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Re: On Hate Speech
Post by Relax   » Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:30 am

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Daryl wrote:Sorry Relax. I did support you, but everything you have just said is easily disproved, if you look anywhere but the extreme RW conspiracy sites.

Lets me get this right... Why would anyone take an Aussie, German, and Swede's word who only hear 30 second baloney out of context clips over a US dude for actual FACTs about things happening in the USA and who actually... went to said marches etc...

You would think you guys would be paying attention that nearly everything the MSM said in 2020 has been proven to be a lie, but I guess you guys like your delusional bigotted opinions about what actually happened. OF course foreign media do not exactly go over all the retractions especially when the US media never do either...

Enjoy
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Re: On Hate Speech
Post by The E   » Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:25 am

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Relax wrote:Lets me get this right... Why would anyone take an Aussie, German, and Swede's word who only hear 30 second baloney out of context clips over a US dude for actual FACTs about things happening in the USA and who actually... went to said marches etc...


Because you, like all the other people screaming that the mainstream media are full of lies, fail to provide proof.
Because you, like all the other idiots screaming about communism, marxism, critical race theory, don't know what those words mean.
Because you, in trying to criticize the media environment in other countries, show your utter ignorance of the world outside the US; you seem to believe that you're the only american we talk to. Speaking only for myself, that's not true - Even if it were, your perception of things isn't absolute truth, so trusting you alone about what's going on in your country seems like something only a very stupid person would do (or, for that matter, expect others to do).

You would think you guys would be paying attention that nearly everything the MSM said in 2020 has been proven to be a lie, but I guess you guys like your delusional bigotted opinions about what actually happened. OF course foreign media do not exactly go over all the retractions especially when the US media never do either...


Hmm, yes, everything the MSM has said was lies in 2020, suuuuurrreeee, unlike those people thinking that there was an imminent arrest of people on various criminal charges, unlike those people who failed to find any proof that the elections were subject to large-scale fraud, unlike the people who are utterly convinced that COVID was just the flu....... Yeah, sure, those people were just full of truth.

No wait. Not truth. What's the other thing? Oh, yes. Bullshit, that's what it was.
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Re: On Hate Speech
Post by Joat42   » Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:21 am

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The E wrote:Hmm, yes, everything the MSM has said was lies in 2020, suuuuurrreeee, unlike those people thinking that there was an imminent arrest of people on various criminal charges, unlike those people who failed to find any proof that the elections were subject to large-scale fraud, unlike the people who are utterly convinced that COVID was just the flu....... Yeah, sure, those people were just full of truth.

No wait. Not truth. What's the other thing? Oh, yes. Bullshit, that's what it was.


His argument aptly illustrates the point made in Network Propaganda:
The consistent pattern that emerges from our data is that, both during the highly divisive election campaign and even more so during the first year of the Trump presidency, there is no left-right division, but rather a division between the right and the rest of the media ecosystem. The right wing of the media ecosystem behaves precisely as the echo-chamber models predict—exhibiting high insularity, susceptibility to information cascades, rumor and conspiracy theory, and drift toward more extreme versions of itself. The rest of the media ecosystem, however, operates as an interconnected network anchored by organizations, both for profit and nonprofit, that adhere to professional journalistic norms."

The explanation for the anti-Clinton narratives' longevity in the news cycle, the data show, is the focus of the right-wing media ecology on the two focal media nodes of Fox News and Breitbart. At times during this period, Breitbart took the lead as an influencer from Fox News, which eventually responded by repositioning itself after Trump's nomination as a solid Trump booster.

In contrast, left-wing media had no single outlet that defined orthodoxy for progressives. Instead, left-of-center outlets worked within the larger sphere of traditional media, and, because they were competing for the rest of the audience that had not committed itself to the Fox/Breitbart ecosystem, were constrained to adhere, mostly, to facts that were confirmable by traditional media institutions associated with the center-left (the New York Times and the Washington Post, say) as well as with the center-right (e.g., the Wall Street Journal). Basically, even if you were an agenda-driven left-oriented publication or online outlet, your dependence on reaching the mainstream for your audience meant that, you couldn't get away with just making stuff up, or with laundering far-left conspiracy theories from more marginal sources.

Network Propaganda's data regarding the right-wing media ecosystem—that it's insular, prefers confirmation of identity and loyalty rather than self-correction, demonizes perceived opponents, and resists disconfirmation of its favored narratives—map well to social-science political-communication theorists Kathleen Hall Jamieson and Joseph Capella's 2008 book, Echo Chamber: Rush Limbaugh And The Rise Of Conservative Media. In that book, Jamieson and Capella outlined how, as they put it, "these conservative media create a self-protective enclave hospitable to conservative beliefs." As a consequence, they write:

"this safe haven reinforces conservative values and dispositions, holds Republican candidates and leaders accountable to conservative ideals, tightens their audience's ties to the Republican Party, and distances listeners, readers, and viewers from 'liberals," in general, and Democrats, in particular. It also enwraps them in a world in which facts supportive of Democratic claims are contested and those consistent with conservative ones championed.

Lets now wait for someone to call the above leftist propaganda.

---
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Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: On Hate Speech
Post by Daryl   » Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:57 pm

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The jingoistic approach that foreigners know nothing could have been true once long ago. Now, any US citizen is just one out of 330 million, with the same access to the same media and sources as any first world citizen. People do tend to gather with like others, hence you hear "Everyone I know, knows that the Clinton's are crooks". In my case friends swap Trump stories, with the final note of "Only in the US"
An interesting experiment last year was the deliberate creation of false memes. This study put out implausible stories, half reinforcing the prejudices of the right, half reinforcing the prejudices of the left. The end result was that those to the right gained credence and spread rapidly, while those to the left fizzed under a cynical audience.
I was part of our Defence Department's planning team for the invasion of Iraq, and we had a secure war room, with among other things several international news feeds. Fox news said "Cowardly Iraqi insurgents treacherously murdered 34 brave US GIs". Meanwhile Reuters said "Superior technology facilitated US led forces in killing tens of thousands of raw Iraqi recruits defending their homeland, while incurring minimal losses".
Same battle, neither told a lie, but very different impressions.
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