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Missing High Ridge

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Missing High Ridge
Post by Bruno Behrends   » Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:38 am

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I never realized it before - but today I noticed I have been a High Ridge fan.

Why?

Because I am really missing him.

Not that I don't agree he was a slimeball who led Manticore to the brink of abyss but he was such a fabulous and believable villain who in my opinion did the story a ton of good.

Sweet reason has ruled since he is gone. Good for the Manties but bad for me as reader craving sensationalist scandals and a screwed-over hero having to face overwhelming odds.

I am coming to hate the Alexander dynasty. Not because I don't like the characters. They are immensely likeable but they are too damn efficient and good at their jobs. As are Elizabeth and Eloise and just about every other person forging the Grand Alliance right now.

Henke is super efficient. Theisman is. Therekov. Lester. And there are are ton more. Not to mention Honor.

What is a good heroine to do in a universe ruled by such perfect characters?

I am somewhat consoled by the fact that the Alignment leadership seems to be capable. So there still are obstacles for the heros to overcome. I still would wish for more obstacles on the home front too though. Those were very cool books and storylines back when High Ridge and his cronies were in power and Honor didn't just have to fight the external enemy but was in continous danger from the internal one as well.
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Re: Missing High Ridge
Post by cthia   » Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:17 am

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Bruno Behrends wrote:I never realized it before - but today I noticed I have been a High Ridge fan.

Why?

Because I am really missing him.

Not that I don't agree he was a slimeball who led Manticore to the brink of abyss but he was such a fabulous and believable villain who in my opinion did the story a ton of good.

Sweet reason has ruled since he is gone. Good for the Manties but bad for me as reader craving sensationalist scandals and a screwed-over hero having to face overwhelming odds.

I am coming to hate the Alexander dynasty. Not because I don't like the characters. They are immensely likeable but they are too damn efficient and good at their jobs. As are Elizabeth and Eloise and just about every other person forging the Grand Alliance right now.

Henke is super efficient. Theisman is. Therekov. Lester. And there are are ton more. Not to mention Honor.

What is a good heroine to do in a universe ruled by such perfect characters?

I am somewhat consoled by the fact that the Alignment leadership seems to be capable. So there still are obstacles for the heros to overcome. I still would wish for more obstacles on the home front too though. Those were very cool books and storylines back when High Ridge and his cronies were in power and Honor didn't just have to fight the external enemy but was in continous danger from the internal one as well.


Good point Bruno.

What you are saying, perhaps, is that High Ridge was effectively an excellent antagonist. I agree. Although he was instrumental in injecting much emotion and the human-factor into the story, 'miss' is too strong a word, for me. Whereas he was good for the storyline, he was bad for my hardback copies of the book. The binding took quite a beating from being flung. Weber's books can be quite aerodynamic. They tend to fly right out of your hand.

I suppose I'd welcome more personal angst, centered around main characters, but for sane-sake, not Honor! I always worried that Honor would end up needing therapy. Matter of fact, there should be a ship's counselor aboard all vessels, in the spirit of Counselor Troi of the Enterprise.

Hey, treecats would make excellent early warning 'mental overload' counselors.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Missing High Ridge
Post by Hutch   » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:27 am

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I 'miss' High Ridge in the same way the old joke goes:

Cop pulls a drunk driver over and storms over to the car.
"You idiot" says the cop, "You almost ran over the mayor back there."
The drunk looks back and says "I'm sorry officer. Do you want me to go back and try again?"


That said, there doesn't seem to be much of any true antagonists left in the body politic; the only opposition party worth it's name is Cathy's, and she ain't going to oppose the Government in fighting against Mesa. And who knows what Younger and Tullingham may be up to back on Haven (but I think Ginny is still there to watch them, so maybe not).

Somewhere there will be an opposition (there always is), but I agree, right now it is 'the Era of Good Feeling' in the Haven Sector.
***********************************************
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow.

What? Look, somebody's got to have some damn perspective around here! Boom. Sooner or later. BOOM! -LT. Cmdr. Susan Ivanova, Babylon 5
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Re: Missing High Ridge
Post by munroburton   » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:01 am

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Hutch wrote:I 'miss' High Ridge in the same way the old joke goes:

Cop pulls a drunk driver over and storms over to the car.
"You idiot" says the cop, "You almost ran over the mayor back there."
The drunk looks back and says "I'm sorry officer. Do you want me to go back and try again?"


That said, there doesn't seem to be much of any true antagonists left in the body politic; the only opposition party worth it's name is Cathy's, and she ain't going to oppose the Government in fighting against Mesa. And who knows what Younger and Tullingham may be up to back on Haven (but I think Ginny is still there to watch them, so maybe not).

Somewhere there will be an opposition (there always is), but I agree, right now it is 'the Era of Good Feeling' in the Haven Sector.


In CoG, there is possible foreshadowing of a Progressive-Conservative alliance in the Lords. I think such an alliance would not be sufficient to overcome a working majority in the hands of Cathy's New Liberals and the enduring Centralist-Loyalist coalition, however.
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Re: Missing High Ridge
Post by hanuman   » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:08 pm

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munroburton wrote:
In CoG, there is possible foreshadowing of a Progressive-Conservative alliance in the Lords. I think such an alliance would not be sufficient to overcome a working majority in the hands of Cathy's New Liberals and the enduring Centralist-Loyalist coalition, however.


Not as long as Cathy remains the leader, I'd say. But also, I think the next election (which will be when exactly, by the way?) will show a dramatic drop in support for the Progressives, after their activities and political machinations during and after the High Ridge-era.
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Re: Missing High Ridge
Post by Brigade XO   » Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:11 pm

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Grayson is having a new problem brewing with the shift of a couple of Steadholders from more or less neutral to supporting the anti-Protector faction. That is partilly because of the Solly confrontation but also they think Benjamin is going too far (even further too far).

Of course we could still see some Manticore problems instigated by the Alignment and their agents making local politics nastier.
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Re: Missing High Ridge
Post by lyonheart   » Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:54 am

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Hi Hanuman,

There weren't that many progressives in the house of lords to start with let alone after the stupidities and criminal acts of High ridge were revealed.

From WroH, the fall of High ridge forced an election which happened before HH got back from Sidemore.

That election was crucial in breaking Kiev as the leader of the Liberals as well the progressives [who were far smaller to start with] NTM putting the San Martino's into Parliament; essentially clearing all the dead wood out of the then SKM, thanks in part to the Young files being destroyed.

The conservative Association will only begin to reassert itself when Oversteegen takes it over. 8-)

And that will be a whole different 'breed o' cat'. :lol:

L


hanuman wrote:
munroburton wrote:
In CoG, there is possible foreshadowing of a Progressive-Conservative alliance in the Lords. I think such an alliance would not be sufficient to overcome a working majority in the hands of Cathy's New Liberals and the enduring Centralist-Loyalist coalition, however.


Not as long as Cathy remains the leader, I'd say. But also, I think the next election (which will be when exactly, by the way?) will show a dramatic drop in support for the Progressives, after their activities and political machinations during and after the High Ridge-era.
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: Missing High Ridge
Post by Bruno Behrends   » Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:23 am

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lyonheart wrote:Hi Hanuman,

There weren't that many progressives in the house of lords to start with let alone after the stupidities and criminal acts of High ridge were revealed.

From WroH, the fall of High ridge forced an election which happened before HH got back from Sidemore.

That election was crucial in breaking Kiev as the leader of the Liberals as well the progressives [who were far smaller to start with] NTM putting the San Martino's into Parliament; essentially clearing all the dead wood out of the then SKM, thanks in part to the Young files being destroyed.

The conservative Association will only begin to reassert itself when Oversteegen takes it over. 8-)

And that will be a whole different 'breed o' cat'. :lol:

L



I am wondering if and when some political faction on Manticore will try to exploit the war with the SL for its own ends.

Demand a harsher response to Solarian aggression than the current government is showing. Using the 'window of opportunity' while the League is weak, before it can build up a new navy etc.

Remembering the threads we had here on the forum about the wisdom of attacking the Sol system, about commiting Eridanic edict violations and all that I very much wonder if the very same discussions aren't going on in Manticore and some faction trying to ride and exploit the hardliner positions. Especially in the wake of the governments alleged 'sleepiness' during the Yawata strike and the governments perceived unwillingness to 'take the war to the Sollies' in a 'decisive way'.

That's not to mean I as a reader agree with any such positions.
But I wonder if in a naturally imperfect world such positions wouldn't be propagated and used by someone. Such things happen in the real world too after all. Revanchism, an urge for vengeance, for simple solutions very often sound attractive for vast parts of a population, especially after someone has been the victim of a sudden and unexpected attack, as the Manties have been.

I think the current Manty administrations policies are very intelligent. I also think that not everybody will realize - or want to realize - that.

And I think, some serious divisions at home on the political front might do the series good and that's why I brought the whole topic up in the first place :P
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Re: Missing High Ridge
Post by lyonheart   » Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:05 am

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Hi Bruno Behrends,

"Always with the negative waves, Moriarty!"

"How about some positive thinking for a change, huh?" :lol:

So after a shattering impossible attack, facing an invisible enemy that has successfully hidden itself, you want to mess up the Manticoran domestic political scene?

Right!

Humanity being so human, such political diversity is certainly to be expected, however irrational, but I doubt such politicians will get much traction with more than a tiny fringe.

First because the initial period of this war will be a series of GA [Manticore] victories; as in "we've captured Mesa?" then humbling the might of the SLN by obliterating BF and most of FF, including their shipyards etc; then there's the liberation of so many protectorates that have clearly been abused by OFS.

So there will be plenty of the government "taking the war to the Sollies' in a decisive way" for anyone to want.

Secondly, the "Honor Doctrine" is so sensible its the plan of the whole GA, with lots and lots of popular support.

Kibitzing it won't be easy or quick for any politician.

Who would dare attack the heroes of the day, year, and decade?

Except the incompetent Progressives may be just that stupid. ;)

Which would be very fun to watch. :D

L


Bruno Behrends wrote:
lyonheart wrote:Hi Hanuman,

There weren't that many progressives in the house of lords to start with let alone after the stupidities and criminal acts of High ridge were revealed.

From WroH, the fall of High ridge forced an election which happened before HH got back from Sidemore.

That election was crucial in breaking Kiev as the leader of the Liberals as well the progressives [who were far smaller to start with] NTM putting the San Martino's into Parliament; essentially clearing all the dead wood out of the then SKM, thanks in part to the Young files being destroyed.

The conservative Association will only begin to reassert itself when Oversteegen takes it over. 8-)

And that will be a whole different 'breed o' cat'. :lol:

L



I am wondering if and when some political faction on Manticore will try to exploit the war with the SL for its own ends.

Demand a harsher response to Solarian aggression than the current government is showing. Using the 'window of opportunity' while the League is weak, before it can build up a new navy etc.

Remembering the threads we had here on the forum about the wisdom of attacking the Sol system, about commiting Eridanic edict violations and all that I very much wonder if the very same discussions aren't going on in Manticore and some faction trying to ride and exploit the hardliner positions. Especially in the wake of the governments alleged 'sleepiness' during the Yawata strike and the governments perceived unwillingness to 'take the war to the Sollies' in a 'decisive way'.

That's not to mean I as a reader agree with any such positions.
But I wonder if in a naturally imperfect world such positions wouldn't be propagated and used by someone. Such things happen in the real world too after all. Revanchism, an urge for vengeance, for simple solutions very often sound attractive for vast parts of a population, especially after someone has been the victim of a sudden and unexpected attack, as the Manties have been.

I think the current Manty administrations policies are very intelligent. I also think that not everybody will realize - or want to realize - that.

And I think, some serious divisions at home on the political front might do the series good and that's why I brought the whole topic up in the first place :P
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: Missing High Ridge
Post by roseandheather   » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:50 pm

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Brigade XO wrote:Grayson is having a new problem brewing with the shift of a couple of Steadholders from more or less neutral to supporting the anti-Protector faction. That is partilly because of the Solly confrontation but also they think Benjamin is going too far (even further too far).

Of course we could still see some Manticore problems instigated by the Alignment and their agents making local politics nastier.


A return to the political machinations of Grayson? Sweet Tester, yes please!! I've missed my beloved planet!

lyonheart wrote:
The conservative Association will only begin to reassert itself when Oversteegen takes it over. 8-)

And that will be a whole different 'breed o' cat'. :lol:


Hey, can someone get me a mop for all this drool? :lol:
~*~


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