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what is an Eradani Edict what is not?

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what is an Eradani Edict what is not?
Post by Lord Skimper   » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:59 am

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I was just watching aStargate episode where they supposedly gate through a local star/sun and cause it to shift to the infrared.

Now against a system is it only an Eradani Edict if it takes place against a world / planet? Presumably firing at a freighter doesn't qualify as every privateer representing a system would then doom that system under the Eradani Edict.

If on a lower tech world, like in Shadows of Freedom, one were to introduce plutonium into a star and shift the star to the infrared. Everyone would die with the green plants, eventually, or have to leave. There must be worlds were a star wears out goes red giant or the like and kills the planet. All the planets.

I have know idea if any of this would work but if you snuck in a bit of plutonium into a star would that be an Eradani Edict? How would anyone know? Best thing is it might be reverse able, maybe. Wait till everyone thing is dead or gone, fix the star and you have a new planet with a lot of fertiliser. Infrastructure still in place, setup ready to go.

No real attack on the planet takes place. One missile fired from far out of a system aimed at the big glowy part. Shouldn't be to hard to hit.
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Re: what is an Eradani Edict what is not?
Post by Vince   » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:16 am

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Lord Skimper wrote:I was just watching aStargate episode where they supposedly gate through a local star/sun and cause it to shift to the infrared.

Now against a system is it only an Eradani Edict if it takes place against a world / planet? Presumably firing at a freighter doesn't qualify as every privateer representing a system would then doom that system under the Eradani Edict.

If on a lower tech world, like in Shadows of Freedom, one were to introduce plutonium into a star and shift the star to the infrared. Everyone would die with the green plants, eventually, or have to leave. There must be worlds were a star wears out goes red giant or the like and kills the planet. All the planets.

I have know idea if any of this would work but if you snuck in a bit of plutonium into a star would that be an Eradani Edict? How would anyone know? Best thing is it might be reverse able, maybe. Wait till everyone thing is dead or gone, fix the star and you have a new planet with a lot of fertiliser. Infrastructure still in place, setup ready to go.

No real attack on the planet takes place. One missile fired from far out of a system aimed at the big glowy part. Shouldn't be to hard to hit.

The idea that having a little plutonium in a star would affect the star is pure fantasy. Not science, not science-fiction, not fiction. Just pure fantasy.
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Re: what is an Eradani Edict what is not?
Post by Dieu_Le_Fera   » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:36 am

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Lord Skimper wrote: stuff


I had the same thought about the use of mass drivers against a planet, since the edict seems to be more about using nukes. But I am willing to bet that since the edict is more about preventing the loss of Civilian life then being a rule lawyer over semantics wouldn't really matter. I can hope to think that any action that would cause mass and needless death to a Civilian population without first holding the orbital and demanding surrender first would be seen as a violation.

This brings up questions about a particular group and their action in a later book though. Their action might not have had the intent to cause mass death on a planetary population, but it did.
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Re: what is an Eradani Edict what is not?
Post by MuonNeutrino   » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:38 am

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Lord Skimper wrote:I have know idea if any of this would work


Yes, obviously.

Generally speaking, I would not base *ANY* speculation set in a realistic universe like the honorverse on a line of technobabble from something like a TV show. It is highly unlikely to end well.

In this case, the idea is utterly laughable. Stars are big. Really, really big. No, bigger than that. No, you're still not thinking big enough. The idea of destabilizing a star in some sort of way is far, far beyond the sort of thing an honorverse-tech-level humanity could do with a single, unobtrusive missile.

Totally apart from that, the specific idea is also utterly laughable. The luminous properties of a star are set by very simple consequences of the laws of physics and its mass and composition. To significantly change those luminous properties, you will need to make a major change in one of those three factors. If you want to shift the spectrum of the star's radiation to the infrared, you will need to lower its surface temperature. If you want to lower its surface temperature, if the star is to continue to stably support itself in equilibrium, its size will need to increase such that the total luminosity can remain constant. This is otherwise known as turning the star into a red giant (ok, I'm glossing over about a billion details here, but there's no point in trying to explain them anyway). Please, tell me just how the hell you propose to do all that without breaking the laws of physics?
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Re: what is an Eradani Edict what is not?
Post by Lord Skimper   » Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:49 pm

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Technically it wouldn't cause mass death to anyone who would leave. Whether it could be done or not is another matter. Particular in a universe where everything has a basis in real science. Like compensators and wedges. Directional artificial gravity plating, life extension that only works on kids. Hyperspace, terminus gravity waves ... Real science?
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Re: what is an Eradani Edict what is not?
Post by The E   » Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:36 pm

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Lord Skimper wrote:Technically it wouldn't cause mass death to anyone who would leave. Whether it could be done or not is another matter. Particular in a universe where everything has a basis in real science. Like compensators and wedges. Directional artificial gravity plating, life extension that only works on kids. Hyperspace, terminus gravity waves ... Real science?


None of the civilizations in the Honorverse has demonstrated the ability to manipulate energy on the scale required to materially affect a star (especially not with "a single missile"). Therefore the question of whether or not such manipulation is an Eridani Edict violation (And it is; not by the letter of the edict, but by its intended spirit) is purely academic.

Also, in case you haven't noticed, the Honorverse and the Stargate verse have nothing in common (beyond the presence of humans). Maybe you should start reading the novels again? It seems you may have forgotten such small facts.

Also, just to single this one line out:
How would anyone know?


Because stars have been studied by physicists for several thousands of years in the Honorverse, if one starts to act erratically, it will provoke questions and investigations.
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Re: what is an Eradani Edict what is not?
Post by hanuman   » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:39 pm

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Lord Skimper wrote:Technically it wouldn't cause mass death to anyone who would leave. Whether it could be done or not is another matter. Particular in a universe where everything has a basis in real science. Like compensators and wedges. Directional artificial gravity plating, life extension that only works on kids. Hyperspace, terminus gravity waves ... Real science?


Okay, I'm no scientist, but it seems to me that what Mr Weber has done right from the start is to set out a number of premises that MIGHT follow logically from the scientific knowledge and understanding we have right now, and from that point he developed the concepts his technological ideas are based on. In that sense, the science of the Honorverse is indeed 'real'.
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Re: what is an Eradani Edict what is not?
Post by namelessfly   » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:54 pm

namelessfly

Does anyone even know what the emission spectrum of Plutonium is?

At stellar temperatures I would expect it to be a black body emission distribution.
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Re: what is an Eradani Edict what is not?
Post by saber964   » Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:30 pm

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Reread Shadow of Freedom were Terikov tells Yucel to surrender and Yucel tells Terikov to pound sand and Terikov responds by dropping a KEW on her head. That was not an edict violation.
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Re: what is an Eradani Edict what is not?
Post by Lord Skimper   » Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:21 pm

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Makes me wonder what the yield of the Kew was, said it was a low yield, yet in CoG low yield damaged but didn't destroy an ordinary apartment building, rather than a military government hardened building.
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