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Sonja Hemphill

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Re: Sonja Hemphill
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sun May 08, 2022 12:05 pm

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Shannon_Foraker wrote:I just didn't really get the joke. I sometime struggle with that type of stuff.


Or missed the cultural references completely, like it was for me.
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Re: Sonja Hemphill
Post by tlb   » Sun May 08, 2022 12:48 pm

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Shannon_Foraker wrote:I just didn't really get the joke. I sometime struggle with that type of stuff.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Or missed the cultural references completely, like it was for me.

An OER is an Officer's Efficiency Report, filled out at regular intervals by the immediate commanding officer and it is the key document that is checked by the promotion review board. A bad review can keep you from getting promoted at the next interval. I do not know the policy now, but it has been the case that if an officer is passed over a certain number of times (I think it was 3), then that officer is released from service in a case of "Up or Out". The jest seemed to be saying that she was just being promoted due to an equal opportunity policy, rather than her intellect and drive. It would be easier to suggest that family connections helped in her case, because in this future and place there is no rationale for an "equal opportunity policy".
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Re: Sonja Hemphill
Post by cthia   » Mon May 09, 2022 10:47 am

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tlb wrote:
ThinksMarkedly wrote:HoS. She's a Lt Cmdr when she nearly blabs about the laserhead to Hamish (who's a full Commander). It's the same passage that talks about who they're of nearly the same age and how their first fight must have happened in the kindergarten sandbox.

Okay, the chapters of "I Will Build my House of Steel" are marked with dates and in 1855 PD Sonja Hemphill and Hamish Alexander are both Lt. Commanders and said to be the same age. So, you are right; they cannot be twenty years apart and Field of Dishonor has to be wrong (which might be a retcon or mistake in the earlier book).

Shannon_Foraker wrote:I say it's a retcon, in my opinion.

1. Prolong doesn't mess things up that much.

2. Sonja is unlikely to be cthia's niece in the Honorverse (to gain the rank while being 20 years younger, even with the Hemphill's political connections). She's smart, but I feel very stupid compared to cthia's niece.

Not trying to brag, just explaining my perspective below (skip italics in this post if you don't want to read it).

I only have the experience of being 1 year ahead in two classes and doing kindergarten part-time in preschool, as well as knowing how to read things like Juneie B Jones books in preschool or kindergarten (somewhere around there). She (the niece) is light-years beyond even me.

Oops! I missed this post.

My niece was a very precocious young girl. She was too inquisitive for her britches. She would ask questions about every single thing possible beginning when she was born. Since I answered every one of her questions my sister blames me for her genius, and annoying habits. LOL

I continued to answer her questions throughout her life until her questions became too difficult for me, and, apparently, for her teachers as well. The school system wanted to send her to college at 13! My sister was shittin' bricks and said no way.

So I don't know, Sonja and Shannon both could have been born with the genius gene and pure curiosity and drive made them into mental Giants. And if those genes were related to Alphas or some other related genetic soup, nature would have likewise taken its course.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Sonja Hemphill
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Mon May 09, 2022 11:29 am

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cthia wrote:I continued to answer her questions throughout her life until her questions became too difficult for me, and, apparently, for her teachers as well. The school system wanted to send her to college at 13! My sister was shittin' bricks and said no way.


Even if Sonja had been sent to Saganami Island at age 13 -- which I seriously doubt, we're talking about joining the military here, and intellectual age is not the only or even the most important aspect -- she'd likely not have made Lieutenant Commander in only 10 years. This was the pre-expansion Navy, where the Prince was only a Lieutenant aboard a destroyer before joining Commodore Adcock, and at least a few of those years of hers would have been in the same Project Gram that was a blackhole of information.

And much less in 2 years that would be required for her to be 20 years Hamish's junior. She wouldn't be out of the Academy yet, so not even an Ensign.
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Re: Sonja Hemphill
Post by Fox2!   » Mon May 09, 2022 1:32 pm

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tlb wrote:
Shannon_Foraker wrote:I just didn't really get the joke. I sometime struggle with that type of stuff.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Or missed the cultural references completely, like it was for me.

An OER is an Officer's Efficiency Report, filled out at regular intervals by the immediate commanding officer and it is the key document that is checked by the promotion review board. A bad review can keep you from getting promoted at the next interval. I do not know the policy now, but it has been the case that if an officer is passed over a certain number of times (I think it was 3), then that officer is released from service in a case of "Up or Out". The jest seemed to be saying that she was just being promoted due to an equal opportunity policy, rather than her intellect and drive. It would be easier to suggest that family connections helped in her case, because in this future and place there is no rationale for an "equal opportunity policy".


Sorry, that was a little too inside baseball.

When I was in the AIr Force, an OER had three parts. One was a numeric score for the officer's abilities in certain named areas. The second was the individual's ranking among others of the same grade, scored by his or her immediate supervisor, a more senior evaluator, and a final evaluator at an even higher level, all in the same chain of command. The third part is a free form evaluation of the officer's accomplishments. A mandatory part of this was a statement that the ratee fully supported the Equal Opportunity Program, not that he (or she, in the case of Sonja) was the beneficiary of the EOP. Since her duties and accomplishments on Gram were so highly classified, the only possible unclassified part of her evaluation, beyond "Done Good in support of highly classified programs" would have been the EOP statement. And even that may have been considered too much information.
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Re: Sonja Hemphill
Post by Jonathan_S   » Mon May 09, 2022 3:39 pm

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Fox2! wrote:Sorry, that was a little too inside baseball.

When I was in the AIr Force, an OER had three parts. One was a numeric score for the officer's abilities in certain named areas. The second was the individual's ranking among others of the same grade, scored by his or her immediate supervisor, a more senior evaluator, and a final evaluator at an even higher level, all in the same chain of command. The third part is a free form evaluation of the officer's accomplishments. A mandatory part of this was a statement that the ratee fully supported the Equal Opportunity Program, not that he (or she, in the case of Sonja) was the beneficiary of the EOP. Since her duties and accomplishments on Gram were so highly classified, the only possible unclassified part of her evaluation, beyond "Done Good in support of highly classified programs" would have been the EOP statement. And even that may have been considered too much information.

Ah - now it makes sense. Thanks for explaining.
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Re: Sonja Hemphill
Post by tlb   » Mon May 09, 2022 4:40 pm

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Fox2! wrote:Sorry, that was a little too inside baseball.

When I was in the AIr Force, an OER had three parts. One was a numeric score for the officer's abilities in certain named areas. The second was the individual's ranking among others of the same grade, scored by his or her immediate supervisor, a more senior evaluator, and a final evaluator at an even higher level, all in the same chain of command. The third part is a free form evaluation of the officer's accomplishments. A mandatory part of this was a statement that the ratee fully supported the Equal Opportunity Program, not that he (or she, in the case of Sonja) was the beneficiary of the EOP. Since her duties and accomplishments on Gram were so highly classified, the only possible unclassified part of her evaluation, beyond "Done Good in support of highly classified programs" would have been the EOP statement. And even that may have been considered too much information.

Jonathan_S wrote:Ah - now it makes sense. Thanks for explaining.

I regret the way I completely misunderstood your post. My only excuse (aside from the fact that my contact with the military dates from before 1975) is that in Sonja Hemphill's Navy there is no need nor rationale for an "equal opportunity policy"; therefore I could not recognize your purpose for mentioning it. Sorry about that.
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Re: Sonja Hemphill
Post by Fox2!   » Mon May 09, 2022 4:58 pm

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tlb wrote:(aside from the fact that my contact with the military dates from before 1975) is that in Sonja Hemphill's Navy there is no need nor rationale for an "equal opportunity policy"; therefore I could not recognize your purpose for mentioning it. Sorry about that.


I realized almost as soon as I pressed Enter that there wasn't enough info in that post. I plead the press of an imminent Telecon for not being clearer.

I had a co-worker who claimed to have received just such an evaluation when he was enlisted. Which sort of inspired my response.
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Re: Sonja Hemphill
Post by Shannon_Foraker   » Thu May 12, 2022 3:13 pm

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This is from Spoilers and possible Errors in House of Steel eARC, but didn't want to bump it, and thought it fit better in Sonja's thread.

Sorry for the topic change from Apollo arguments.

rmsgrey wrote:
waddles for desert wrote:Elizabeth should propose elevating her to Countess. She is a Conservative, but the seating of the San Martin lords should offset that.


Creating Conservative-aligned peers who have a reasonable grasp of reality is to be encouraged anyway - the goal is not to eliminate undesirable factions, but to have as many Lords as possible be useful and productive members of the House

I'd say that Sonja's politics have moderated since the court-martial. After all, she and Shannon get along, despite
CA Honorverse wiki entry wrote:Their foreign policy was isolationist, seeing involvement in foreign affairs as risky and dangerous.


She also is able to be in a meeting with those who don't share her political views and not restart a war, as of ART.

She's a much saner CA peer than High Ridge, even at her worst (HoS, with the near-duel incident), in my opinion.

Despite her not enjoying politics, could she potentially someday lead a saner and more moderate CA? Or would she lean toward another party?

New CA (under someone with a good brain)policy could extend to being friends with Haven and the SEM's allies.
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Re: Sonja Hemphill
Post by Theemile   » Thu May 12, 2022 3:58 pm

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Shannon_Foraker wrote:
She also is able to be in a meeting with those who don't share her political views and not restart a war, as of ART.

She's a much saner CA peer than High Ridge, even at her worst (HoS, with the near-duel incident), in my opinion.

Despite her not enjoying politics, could she potentially someday lead a saner and more moderate CA? Or would she lean toward another party?

New CA (under someone with a good brain)policy could extend to being friends with Haven and the SEM's allies.


The North Hollow documents are gone - as is her cousin Janacheck.

The entire calculus of the Manty Lords has changed - North Hollow had some level of control over 75% of the Peerage because of the secrets in those files. (and a good % of the rest of the rich and powerful commoners as well)

Janacheck held power over the "conservative" political admirals, and Hemphill's fortunes (unrightfully so) were seen to be attached to Janacheck's coat-tails. So she was caught in the machine - and she knew it.

At the trial, Hemphill was being used as puppet for the conservatives - she mostly followed the party line, but "broke" with them about Young remaining in Uniform, and brokered the deal that let him off with just a discharge.

In her conscious, she knew she couldn't stand someone like Young to remain in uniform, and if she voted as she wanted, the conservatives would shut down the RMN just when it needed funding to persecute the war, while voting with the "Party" would cause a schism in the RMN leadership when it was least needed - in addition to the flood of dirty laundry from North Hollow files which would distract the same leadership from the war. The middle track she walked appeased both, and kept the RMN in the fight.

In retrospect it as the perfect balancing act of an astute political analyst.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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