Sonja Hemphill

Just reading FoD and noticed a issue, compared to what I've heard of HoS.
About Sonja (chapter 8):

FoD wrote:“Though twenty years younger and far junior to White Haven, she'd made her name early in the R&D community, and she was a leading advocate of the jeune ecole's material-based "new tactical thinking," whereas the earl was the acknowledged leader of the historical school.”

I thought Sonja and White Haven were contemporaries, and had their first argument in kindergarten? Was this changed in later books?
Did she "make her name early" in R&D in House of Steel? I haven't read HoS, but don't care about spoilers.

I'm guessing that it been retconned that she was closer to Hamish's age.

it was definitely implied in house of steel that are close of age, though the kindergarten fight is probably an exaggeration.

Dauntless wrote:I'm guessing that it been retconned that she was closer to Hamish's age.

it was definitely implied in house of steel that are close of age, though the kindergarten fight is probably an exaggeration.

I am not sure where in House of Steel that is implied. As protege and successor to Jonas Adcock at the Bureau of Weapons and a relative of Sir Edward Janacek, it is possible that she received an out of zone promotion that brought her close to Hamish's rank; despite the age difference. HOS does say that "as leader of the derisively dubbed 'jeune ecole', she became a tireless advocate (with Jonas Adcock's support) of technical advancement and turned the dismissive label into something quite different".

In any case, since they both had prolong, the age difference might not matter as much; particularly as she had a long tenure at the Bureau of Weapons, where she was in a position to champion her ideas and clash with Hamish.

tlb wrote:I am not sure where in House of Steel that is implied. As protege and successor to Jonas Adcock at the Bureau of Weapons and a relative of Sir Edward Janacek, it is possible that she received an out of zone promotion that brought her close to Hamish's rank; despite the age difference. HOS does say that "as leader of the derisively dubbed 'jeune ecole', she became a tireless advocate (with Jonas Adcock's support) of technical advancement and turned the dismissive label into something quite different".

In any case, since they both had prolong, the age difference might not matter as much; particularly as she had a long tenure at the Bureau of Weapons, where she was in a position to champion her ideas and clash with Hamish.

The reverse is also possible, that Hamish was held back by that clique of patronage, like we know happened to Honor later.

It's also possible that Sonja joined the RMN much earlier in life than Hamish. Both had RMN family traditions -- Hamish's father and Sonja's grandfather, at least -- but we know Hamish dated and married a movie star (Emily), so it's possible he simply led an easy life in his tweens, until he finally matured and joined. I also get the impression that his brother is much younger than him, so a family accident might have required him to care for his brother... not that the White Haven Earldom would have lacked for funds to pay for nannies.

So if Sonja joined like Honor at 17 T-years of age and Hamish was 32, but joined 5 years earlier, he could be 20 years her senior and close enough in rank.

However, none of this is possible if Hamish's date of birth is 1820 PD. If Sonja is 20 years his junior, she'd have been born around 1840. She can't be a Lieutenant Commander in 1855, at age 15. I'd have trouble seeing her as LtCmdr at age 25.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:However, none of this is possible if Hamish's date of birth is 1820 PD. If Sonja is 20 years his junior, she'd have been born around 1840. She can't be a Lieutenant Commander in 1855, at age 15. I'd have trouble seeing her as LtCmdr at age 25.

The one timeline that I found has Hamish Alexander born in 1819 PD, which is 7 years before prolong was first introduced to Manticore. It shows 1 Oct 1859 PD as the birth of Honor Harrington, but does not show Sonja Hemphill. Alfred Yu was born in 1839 PD, so twenty years younger than Hamish and Mark Sarnow and Alistair McKeon were born in 1851 PD. If Sonja is twenty years younger than Hamish, then she and Alfred Yu are the same age. Roger III was crowned in 1857 PD and Hamish is 38 and presumably Sonja is 18 (and a midshipman?). In 1883 Elizabeth III is crowned and in 1890 PD Lt Cmdr Honor Harrington is the executive officer of HMS Broadsword at the age of 31. So Sonja could be a Lt Cmdr in 1870 PD, 13 years before Elizabeth is crowned.

Where did you find the date 1855 PD? The timeline shows that only 1 year later, in 1856 PD, the Basilisk Terminus of the Manticore Wormhole Junction is discovered.

tlb wrote:Where did you find the date 1855 PD? The timeline shows that only 1 year later, in 1856 PD, the Basilisk Terminus of the Manticore Wormhole Junction is discovered.

HoS. She's a Lt Cmdr when she nearly blabs about the laserhead to Hamish (who's a full Commander). It's the same passage that talks about who they're of nearly the same age and how their first fight must have happened in the kindergarten sandbox.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:HoS. She's a Lt Cmdr when she nearly blabs about the laserhead to Hamish (who's a full Commander). It's the same passage that talks about who they're of nearly the same age and how their first fight must have happened in the kindergarten sandbox.

Okay, the chapters of "I Will Build my House of Steel" are marked with dates and in 1855 PD Sonja Hemphill and Hamish Alexander are both Lt. Commanders and said to be the same age. So, you are right; they cannot be twenty years apart and Field of Dishonor has to be wrong (which might be a retcon or mistake in the earlier book).

Hamish is a Lt. Commander (not a full one) and is assigned to Bureau of Planning; which would give him numerous opportunities to have disagreements with Sonja.

tlb wrote:

ThinksMarkedly wrote:HoS. She's a Lt Cmdr when she nearly blabs about the laserhead to Hamish (who's a full Commander). It's the same passage that talks about who they're of nearly the same age and how their first fight must have happened in the kindergarten sandbox.

Okay, the chapters of "I Will Build my House of Steel" are marked with dates and in 1855 PD Sonja Hemphill and Hamish Alexander are both Lt. Commanders and said to be the same age. So, you are right; they cannot be twenty years apart and Field of Dishonor has to be wrong (which might be a retcon or mistake in the earlier book).

I say it's a retcon, in my opinion.

1. Prolong doesn't mess things up that much.

2. Sonja is unlikely to be cthia's niece in the Honorverse (to gain the rank while being 20 years younger, even with the Hemphill's political connections). She's smart, but I feel very stupid compared to cthia's niece.

Not trying to brag, just explaining my perspective below (skip italics in this post if you don't want to read it).

I only have the experience of being 1 year ahead in two classes and doing kindergarten part-time in preschool, as well as knowing how to read things like Juneie B Jones books in preschool or kindergarten (somewhere around there). She (the niece) is light-years beyond even me.

Shannon_Foraker wrote:I say it's a retcon, in my opinion.

1. Prolong doesn't mess things up that much.

2. Sonja is unlikely to be cthia's niece in the Honorverse (to gain the rank while being 20 years younger, even with the Hemphill's political connections). She's smart, but I feel very stupid compared to cthia's niece.

Not trying to brag, just explaining my perspective below (skip italics in this post if you don't want to read it).

I only have the experience of being 1 year ahead in two classes and doing kindergarten part-time in preschool, as well as knowing how to read things like Juneie B Jones books in preschool or kindergarten (somewhere around there). She (the niece) is light-years beyond even me.

I'm unsure. I think she had the opportunity to advance faster than Hamish. She was related to Janacek and thus had the clique of patronage available to her. It's possible it was used to advance her even without her knowledge, as a way of currying favour with Janacek.

But her personality was most likely holding her back. She (and Hamish) had a history of temper and butting heads, and most likely not only against each other. So her file probably had quite a few remarks from other officers who thought she was a hot-head. Nowhere near strong enough to stall her career, but it might have sufficed to stop the promotions board from giving her promotions too quickly. And her adherence to and leadership of the jeune école might not have helped her in the eyes of the more traditional officers.

Plus, her actual accomplishments inside Project Gram and under Vice Admiral Adcock were classified. It's very hard to get promotions when you can't show anything for your record.