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Peer's review: DEATHSPHERE poll

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.

Do you think Cheopis' sphere of wedges would work?

Yes
0
No votes
No
9
90%
Partially
1
10%
 
Total votes : 10

Peer's review: DEATHSPHERE poll
Post by Hajil   » Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:04 pm

Hajil
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1165
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:18 pm

Recenlty I noticed that in this topic:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2233

I'm posting alone, while some time ago, there were quite some people arguing. So, I'm wondering did Cheo actually convinced anyone or is eveyone just tired of arguing. To be honest I'm tired too but since I'm not a nice person, I don't want him to feel like he won. So, here is peer review, this is not so much about discussing the idea (it already is in the topic above), but it's simple poll: do you think DEATHSPHERE will work?
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Re: Peer's review: DEATHSPHERE poll
Post by Cheopis   » Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:33 pm

Cheopis
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1633
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:04 am

Hajil wrote:Recenlty I noticed that in this topic:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2233

I'm posting alone, while some time ago, there were quite some people arguing. So, I'm wondering did Cheo actually convinced anyone or is eveyone just tired of arguing. To be honest I'm tired too but since I'm not a nice person, I don't want him to feel like he won. So, here is peer review, this is not so much about discussing the idea (it already is in the topic above), but it's simple poll: do you think DEATHSPHERE will work?


Delete this and come back to the thread and take your punishment like an adult. Turning it into a popularity contest because you are being drummed about the head and shoulders by logic won't get you very far.
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Re: Peer's review: DEATHSPHERE poll
Post by waddles for desert   » Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:30 am

waddles for desert
Admiral

Posts: 2414
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:17 am

For an energy heavy, missile poor outfit like Filaretta's SLN fleet, coming out of hyper with as much velocity as possible, accelerating to correct the vector for target planet intercept, ceasing acceleration and "turtling up" for a balistic ride in system, and then breaking out of the turtle to decelerate in range of the planet is probably the best shot he has. Sucks to be Filaretta, but it could work somewhat to his advantage if the odds were not so overwhelmingly against him.

As to LAC's and wedges, with associated wall of battle under modest acceleration (100 G?), squadrons of LACs could operate two to four light seconds in advance of the wall in coordinated spirals around the flanks. Probes two light seconds further ahead and further out on the flanks could feed a clear picture to the wall - relayed through wall consorts if necessary. Under fleet combat computer coordination, LAC's could slash across the annulus using their wedges to destroy missiles already locked onto a target in the wall. As the computers are anticipating the action of the LAC's, anticipating the probable results and monitoring the outcome via relays in near real time, they should be able to coordinate CM's, grasers and PDLS's for optimal results given the computing resources of an SD. This is not something that Honor or Shannon would slap together in the middle of a battle. It would require doctrine, programming, training and lots and lots and lots of practice. But, things should eventually evolve that way.
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Re: Peer's review: DEATHSPHERE poll
Post by torongill   » Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:29 am

torongill
Lieutenant (Senior Grade)

Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:49 am

Hajil wrote:Recenlty I noticed that in this topic:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2233

I'm posting alone, while some time ago, there were quite some people arguing. So, I'm wondering did Cheo actually convinced anyone or is eveyone just tired of arguing. To be honest I'm tired too but since I'm not a nice person, I don't want him to feel like he won. So, here is peer review, this is not so much about discussing the idea (it already is in the topic above), but it's simple poll: do you think DEATHSPHERE will work?

I stopped posting because there have been no answers to my questions. Apparently sheldon cooper thinks if he doesn't answer a question it means he defeated the opponent.
From what I've seen so far, "work" has several definitions. You first have to be able to form the sphere. Theoretically and if there exists a supercomputer that can coordinate the movement of hundreds of ships and deal with light-speed com delay, you could form that sphere. you could even move it at maybe 1-2% c. The problems arise from the fact that such a formation will take time, lots of time to execute, with ships moving moving very very slowly to close the gaps to hair-bleaching and heartstroke-inducing minimums. Hence the formation will have to be arranged hundreds of millions of kilometers away, so that the manties and the havenites don't pounce on them. This will have the undesired effect of allowing the system defenders to form a strategy to confront the monstrosity and have ample time to execute it. Since the sphere will be moving slowly on a definite unchanging course, the manticore system defense will be able to do a few things:

1. strip the escorting small craft and screen by long-range attacks with apollo and mistletoe strikes.
2. position mistletoe drones in close proximity to the gaps on standby, then move in with low-speed dazzlers and dragon's teeth to blind forward and rear sensors aboard the solly SDs. Then while the sensors are momentarily blind, carefully move in drones on reactors alone and fire up. But these will be diversionary attacks, probing the defenses.
3. The real deal will be to put a few heavy freighters and maybe an old SD as a roadblock. If the sphere hits the roadblock, you can count on quite a few solly SDs fried and lots of debris floating towards the center of the sphere. And then the system defenders, having stacked ten pod patterns, will engage the sphere from the resulting hole.

In conclusion, the Solly force would be better off coming as a conventional wall of battle and trying to tighten formation by the abovementioned "computer management" and reaction thrusters.
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Re: Peer's review: DEATHSPHERE poll
Post by Cheopis   » Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:11 am

Cheopis
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1633
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:04 am

torongill wrote:
Hajil wrote:Recenlty I noticed that in this topic:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2233

I'm posting alone, while some time ago, there were quite some people arguing. So, I'm wondering did Cheo actually convinced anyone or is eveyone just tired of arguing. To be honest I'm tired too but since I'm not a nice person, I don't want him to feel like he won. So, here is peer review, this is not so much about discussing the idea (it already is in the topic above), but it's simple poll: do you think DEATHSPHERE will work?

I stopped posting because there have been no answers to my questions. Apparently sheldon cooper thinks if he doesn't answer a question it means he defeated the opponent.
From what I've seen so far, "work" has several definitions. You first have to be able to form the sphere. Theoretically and if there exists a supercomputer that can coordinate the movement of hundreds of ships and deal with light-speed com delay, you could form that sphere. you could even move it at maybe 1-2% c. The problems arise from the fact that such a formation will take time, lots of time to execute, with ships moving moving very very slowly to close the gaps to hair-bleaching and heartstroke-inducing minimums. Hence the formation will have to be arranged hundreds of millions of kilometers away, so that the manties and the havenites don't pounce on them. This will have the undesired effect of allowing the system defenders to form a strategy to confront the monstrosity and have ample time to execute it. Since the sphere will be moving slowly on a definite unchanging course, the manticore system defense will be able to do a few things:

1. strip the escorting small craft and screen by long-range attacks with apollo and mistletoe strikes.
2. position mistletoe drones in close proximity to the gaps on standby, then move in with low-speed dazzlers and dragon's teeth to blind forward and rear sensors aboard the solly SDs. Then while the sensors are momentarily blind, carefully move in drones on reactors alone and fire up. But these will be diversionary attacks, probing the defenses.
3. The real deal will be to put a few heavy freighters and maybe an old SD as a roadblock. If the sphere hits the roadblock, you can count on quite a few solly SDs fried and lots of debris floating towards the center of the sphere. And then the system defenders, having stacked ten pod patterns, will engage the sphere from the resulting hole.

In conclusion, the Solly force would be better off coming as a conventional wall of battle and trying to tighten formation by the abovementioned "computer management" and reaction thrusters.


You got answers.

1) There is no external escort to pick off. All ships are either inside the sphere or part of the sphere.

2) You want to use low speed missiles to carefully line up on the cracks of the turtle - exactly where the sensors are able to see clearly enough to fire even without tacnet support from the sensors of other ships. Won't work. Bam. PDLC's and main batteries fire. Secondary sensors come online while primaries clear. Mistletoe drones are detected on approach and destroyed. Solarian sensor systems aren't poor quality. Any Sollie that knows enough about Manty tech to form sphere is going to know enough to realize that they had better be shooting at nearby sensor ghosts as well as clearly identified targets.

3) Put freighters in the way, and the SD's simply plow through them, popping the civilian grade wedges with military grade wedges, or if the captains are nervous about that, push a few missiles out and blow the freighter. Put a warship in the way and the sphere simply fires missiles out and blows the ship up when it's too close to effectively stop even Sollie missiles. I didn't press this before, but After getting a look at what the formation would actually look like, it would only take a couple degrees of motion from the ships and wedges to clear a gap sufficient for attack missiles to easily pass through.


4) Bring the enemy fleet close enough to engage interactively with the turtle's opening and closing cracks between wedges, and you are doing exactly what the turtle wants - fighting on their terms.

If you want to bring up these arguments again in the thread where the discussion is taking place, feel free.
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