munroburton wrote:penny wrote:For instance, would it be considered going rogue if she "commandeered" certain units to make an unscheduled visit to a system before the rats launched the LDs? When units are commandeered, does not the crew come with it?
Without standing orders which directed or at least authorised her to take such actions, yes.
Not sure I can agree with that. Honor's rank is effectively Honor's authorization. We are discussing the Salamander. Honor has always had a sixth sense. And it has never been wrong. Well... ?
The first time I became aware of her sixth sense was when it kicked in right in the middle of her maiden voyage to the Basilisk System. If Honor commandeers a fleet, it is because she senses that something is amiss, and that something needs to be done. At the end of the day, Beth's government is going to back Honor's actions as much as she can.
Honor choosing to commandeer instead of outright steal the units she needs is skirting the line. She is helping Beth, her government and Navy to help her. Honor would be giving them something to work with.
The RMN affords its officers a bit of autonomy in the field. That is something Haven's navy once lacked. Being trusted to the point of being able to make your own decisions on the spot affords a lot of leeway in which to properly secure your area of operation. There is at least a nominal amount of built-in confidence the admiralty inherently makes clear. It can backfire, sure, but that is why the Navy has to be sure they do not promote idiots.
munroburton wrote:Just like that one time she took a SD(P) to visit Chien-lu Anderman at an IAN fleet base in order to obtain a de facto ceasefire/truce which then freed her hands to concentrate upon the suspected Havenite threat. IIRC, Janacek was furious about that, but his First Space Lord endorsed it and war breaking out with Haven proved her right.
You have a point. Of course. But as you said, Honor's decision proved to be the right thing for her to do.
The take away here is two-fold. Honor knew what she had to do. She has always been a no-nonsense officer. She also knew that Janacek called the shots and he hated her. Yet, that did not stop Honor from doing her duty. This mission will not have a Janacek to answer to.
Honor is no idiot. She really does have a sixth sense. And everyone trusts it. The notion reminds me of an amusing exchange aboard the Enterprise.
Kirk : Mr. Spock, have you accounted for the variable mass of whales and water in your time re-entry program?
Spock : Mr. Scott cannot give me exact figures, Admiral, so... I will make a guess.
Kirk : A guess? You, Spock? That's extraordinary.
Spock : [to Dr. McCoy] I don't think he understands.
McCoy : No, Spock. He means that he feels safer about your guesses than most other people's facts.
Spock : Then you're saying...
[pause]
Spock : It is a compliment?
McCoy : It is.
Spock : Ah. Then, I will try to make the best guess I can.
McCoy : Please do.The Navy, the Admiralty, her crew, her peers, even the Queen herself has always trusted Honor's guesses more than they trust their own.
munroburton wrote:Going by Honor's character and past actions, she only goes "rogue" when she's making a calculated gamble on behalf of Manticore and, in case the gamble fails, sets things up so she could have been disavowed.
Exactly! It is her modus operandi. What makes this gamble any different?
munroburton wrote:That is no longer possible after the Battle of Sol made her the most (in)famous person in and around League space.
But of course she is not the most infamous person to anyone in the League who is honest and who has half-a-brain -- which includes anyone who realizes that Honor's attack on the Sol System was metered and muted. Even if they didn't outright say, I am sure that at the end of the day, they were thankful. I fail to see how League Space would matter here, at the end of the day. The League is blind as a bat. Perhaps you should elaborate, please?
munroburton wrote:penny wrote:You got the wrong idea. A huge fleet can exist in isolation long enough. They do that every time they go out on a mission. However, Sally has gone rogue for one very particular mission. She already knows how much firepower she needs. She is going to kick the back door in in some system. Sally intends to make this a very short and very victorious engagement. She isn't interested in going rogue as a career.
Let's look at Galton here. In order to know how much firepower she needed, Manticore had to carry out a thorough preliminary reconnaissance. Then it had to fill dozens of military-spec fast freighters with millions of missile
pods. We don't know how many weeks or months away Galton was, so there needs to be more freighters with spare hydrogen, air and all other consumables.
Do you expect the target to fight back? Then you need to add repair ships with spare parts and hospital ships. Do you expect there to be a ground occupation afterwards? Now you need to loop the Army and Marines in and organise troop transports. If you want to collect what evidence isn't immediately destroyed the minute you cross the hyper limit, you probably want a bunch of special investigators - the only significant source of those is to bring along a large number of civilians: PIs, detectives, auditors and so on.
Now your assault fleet and its fleet train are so large that it's going to need a decent screen of lighter hyper-capable vessels. Those do not sit around; you have to recall them from their regular interstellar missions.
D-Day would have failed if Eisenhower suddenly attacked Omaha beach with a single Corps and left the rest of the team back home.
If Honor attempts to mobilize a force that large, it will be difficult for her to maintain ... Operational Security ... from her own navy!
Again, Honor is no idiot. The Salamander is even less of an idiot. Obviously Honor knows something that must be acted upon on the spot. She will not be skipping into an unknown system trying to conquer it.
If Honor feels like a certain mission is within her abilities and firepower, even as a Fleet Admiral, I won't
dare doubt her.
YMMV aboard a streak drive.
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The artist formerly known as cthia.
Now I can talk in the third person.