NEED TO KNOW

Shannon_Foraker wrote:I don't think you can send Hermes buoy messages through a junction, although, you could use a dispatch boat. I don't remember where I read that, though.

That is correct, but a dispatch boat can't be lost with just one transit. If the Junction side has seen it transit, it will have arrived on the other side.

Besides, I expect that every single ship that transits carries message updates and mail to the local Traffic Control station. Encrypted, of course.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

Shannon_Foraker wrote:I don't think you can send Hermes buoy messages through a junction, although, you could use a dispatch boat. I don't remember where I read that, though.

That is correct, but a dispatch boat can't be lost with just one transit. If the Junction side has seen it transit, it will have arrived on the other side.

Besides, I expect that every single ship that transits carries message updates and mail to the local Traffic Control station. Encrypted, of course.

Guys... just because there are a few holes in my scenario that causes Honor to be saddled with a numbskull doesn't mean it can't happen. Heck, we're talking about "above the law" Pavel Young. Young can simply drag his ass leaving the system. He can choose to drag it out simply to be a thorn in Honor's side.

As a matter of fact, if he smells the same rat that Honor smelled, or even if he gets wind of what Honor smelled, he can choose to remain in the system.

I would imagine that Honor would have been given direct orders not to share Apollo secrets with Young.

I often wonder about the spouses of naval officers concerning the logistics of need to know.

How does the Admiralty deal with the worry of secrets being leaked because of a curious spouse?

In the case of Queen Elizabeth's husband Justin, is he cleared for all trade secrets? I wouldn't think so. But what is preventing him from perusing the material in his wife's office. Does she keep it locked from her own husband?

Is Justin vetted ever so often?

How do secretaries factor in to a need to know? I would imagine they are vetted, but would a secretary be trained to resist spilling state secrets?

Is Honor's secretary privy to the contents of all of her mail? I vaguely recall one passage where Honor's mail may have been read.

Are trade secrets kept from allies? They are here on Earth.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

Shannon_Foraker wrote:I don't think you can send Hermes buoy messages through a junction, although, you could use a dispatch boat. I don't remember where I read that, though.

That is correct, but a dispatch boat can't be lost with just one transit. If the Junction side has seen it transit, it will have arrived on the other side.

Besides, I expect that every single ship that transits carries message updates and mail to the local Traffic Control station. Encrypted, of course.

Well, playing Devil's Advocate, we don't know what happens if a ship tried to use a wormhole but doesn't have the approach and settings quite right. Now, outside of sabotage, that shouldn't ever happen on an already charted wormhole -- but we don't know if the failed jump is detectable from one side or the other.

Still, that's extremely, extremely unlikely. You'd be more likely to have a hyperdrive failure (in which case the Junction Astro Control would see the ship fail to jump; and likely be destroyed), or collide with something immediately after emergence (in which case the remote Astro Control would see the collision). And either of those is vanishingly unlikely in the first place (well, unless you're shoving ships through at minimum possible intervals in which case collision becomes a quite possible risk)

But if either of those events ever was to happen, because they'd be observed, word would rapidly be disseminated that the courier and the copies of dispatches it carried, was lost and needed to be resent.

cthia wrote:I often wonder about the spouses of naval officers concerning the logistics of need to know.

How does the Admiralty deal with the worry of secrets being leaked because of a curious spouse?

In the case of Queen Elizabeth's husband Justin, is he cleared for all trade secrets? I wouldn't think so. But what is preventing him from perusing the material in his wife's office. Does she keep it locked from her own husband?

Is Justin vetted ever so often?

How do secretaries factor in to a need to know? I would imagine they are vetted, but would a secretary be trained to resist spilling state secrets?

Is Honor's secretary privy to the contents of all of her mail? I vaguely recall one passage where Honor's mail may have been read.

Are trade secrets kept from allies? They are here on Earth.

Trade secrets that are commercial property, as opposed to governmental secrets? That depends on the company and the contract; it was my understanding that China has gained a lot of trade secrets as the result of contracts that require sharing.

Everyone that will come in contact with a member of the Royal family is checked; first to see if they are a danger.

Everyone that will come in contact with officials secrets is checked, including secretaries. Family members, perhaps not so much, but government agents are expected to say the absolute minimum about what they do and it is generally a security breach to bring work papers (and so on) home.

Is Justin still vetted regularly? Probably not directly, but he is inside the bubble and everyone that comes in contact with that bubble is being checked; so he is in effect being constantly checked indirectly, through the people with whom he is in contact.

cthia wrote:I often wonder about the spouses of naval officers concerning the logistics of need to know.

How does the Admiralty deal with the worry of secrets being leaked because of a curious spouse?

In the case of Queen Elizabeth's husband Justin, is he cleared for all trade secrets? I wouldn't think so. But what is preventing him from perusing the material in his wife's office. Does she keep it locked from her own husband?

On the one hand if the Queen has the power to determine classification (like the US President does) then Justin is cleared for anything she says he is.

On the other hand if there's material that he's not cleared for it wouldn't (barring mistakes) be left out where he could find it. If he has access to the office where that classified material is handled then when not in use it'd be in a classified storage system (usually a safe for physical papers / objects) or a separate computer he'd have no login for.

People with knowledge of classified information are not supposed to bring it home and aren't supposed to share it with their spouse. (Well, except in the obvious case of working together when both are cleared for the material and both have need to know -- and even then the discussion should be restricted to the office)


Is there some worry anyway? Probably. Humans don't always do what they're supposed to. And even diligent people make mistakes and say things they're supposed to keep secret. But it's probably not their largest concern.

Jonathan_S wrote:

cthia wrote:I often wonder about the spouses of naval officers concerning the logistics of need to know.

How does the Admiralty deal with the worry of secrets being leaked because of a curious spouse?

In the case of Queen Elizabeth's husband Justin, is he cleared for all trade secrets? I wouldn't think so. But what is preventing him from perusing the material in his wife's office. Does she keep it locked from her own husband?

On the one hand if the Queen has the power to determine classification (like the US President does) then Justin is cleared for anything she says he is.

On the other hand if there's material that he's not cleared for it wouldn't (barring mistakes) be left out where he could find it. If he has access to the office where that classified material is handled then when not in use it'd be in a classified storage system (usually a safe for physical papers / objects) or a separate computer he'd have no login for.

People with knowledge of classified information are not supposed to bring it home and aren't supposed to share it with their spouse. (Well, except in the obvious case of working together when both are cleared for the material and both have need to know -- and even then the discussion should be restricted to the office)


Is there some worry anyway? Probably. Humans don't always do what they're supposed to. And even diligent people make mistakes and say things they're supposed to keep secret. But it's probably not their largest concern.

A certain US President took classified documents to his home to destroy them. We don't know who actually saw them.

In Justin's case, he is ever under the watchful eyes of Monroe, so vetting him should be easy.

cthia wrote:A certain US President took classified documents to his home to destroy them. We don't know who actually saw them.

In Justin's case, he is ever under the watchful eyes of Monroe, so vetting him should be easy.

Just like the Queen, the President has the power to declassify documents or let anyone he wishes see them.

Justin is also contantly surrounded by Royal security, who may understand document security and the Official Secrets Act better than Monroe. We only really see the security fully operate in Crown of Slaves; but we should consider them to be similar in actions to Honor's armsmen, except that their loyalty is to the Queen and the Crown.

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:A certain US President took classified documents to his home to destroy them. We don't know who actually saw them.

In Justin's case, he is ever under the watchful eyes of Monroe, so vetting him should be easy.

Just like the Queen, the President has the power to declassify documents or let anyone he wishes see them.

Justin is also contantly surrounded by Royal security, who may understand document security and the Official Secrets Act better than Monroe. We only really see the security fully operate in Crown of Slaves; but we should consider them to be similar in actions to Honor's armsmen, except that their loyalty is to the Queen and the Crown.

Does that include sharing them with the enemy?

I suddenly understand why the President is not given the real 411 on Area 51. He might elect to share Apollo-level secrets with the world, thus, with the enemy.

Plausible deniability.

And of course, the bit about "If I tell you I have to kill you" sort of thing.

cthia wrote:Guys... just because there are a few holes in my scenario that causes Honor to be saddled with a numbskull doesn't mean it can't happen. Heck, we're talking about "above the law" Pavel Young. Young can simply drag his ass leaving the system. He can choose to drag it out simply to be a thorn in Honor's side.

I understand. That's why I immediately assumed that it was some location other than one-transit away from the home system. Somewhere where a courier carrying orders might go missing.

But the problem is that you can´t paper all the holes. As discussed above, either Honor is supposed to make herself subordinate to whoever is in command of the station, or she isn't. In the former case, then it stands to reason that any secrets that might be of tactical import and to the safety of said station are to be shared with that CO. In the latter case, Honor would be carrying the orders to send Young packing. And he can't refuse, because that would be clear and blatant disobedience, and Paul Tankersley would place him under arrest and assume command of HMS Warlock.

I would imagine that Honor would have been given direct orders not to share Apollo secrets with Young.

Which she might have to violate, if exigent circumstances require it.

Take the scenario above and imagine that Warlock starts making preparations to leave, as ordered. That's not an immediate thing, because Young might have actually been doing his job and have sent pinnaces away, so he needs to collect his crew, load provisions, etc. In that meantime, a Peep taskforce arrives to bounce them out.

What does Honor do? Write into her log that the orders became OBE and share the information with Young, so he may make the correct tactical decision? Or stick to the letter of her orders, not brief Young of something that would let them win, and thence lose both ships? And let the secret fall into enemy hands?