Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 31 guests

Lord Breakwater

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Lord Breakwater
Post by Theemile   » Thu May 05, 2022 12:52 pm

Theemile
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5060
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:50 pm
Location: All over the Place - Now Serving Dublin, OH

ThinksMarkedly wrote:
Theemile wrote:While some of the SS in the Anthologies read like generic Sci-Fi with the names changed to fit the Honorverse, some (especially those written by Weber and Flint) are required background material for the Greater Honorverse. David has built undercurrents of plots that have slowly matured over a dozen books or more - some have yet to come to fruition.


I don't see how.

You could maybe skip Crown of Slaves (CS1), but that's the one that introduces the Kingdom of Torch. But they become important later in the series, so knowing how they come about is handy. And the very next book, Torch of Freedom (CS2), introduces the Alignment, so you can't very well skip it. And Cauldron of Ghosts (CS3) is all about Houdini.

In the SI series, could maybe skip the third (SoF), since it is interleaved with the fourth (SoV), but I wouldn't recommend. Those two are the hardest to read (IMO) because of the slow pace of development and the extent of phrases in Czech and Polish. It's very easy to lose track of who the good guys and who their adversaries are in which system. But some of the best battles are in those two books, like the Battle of Saltash.


I was speaking to the Anthologies.

"A ship called Francis", and "Let's go to Prague" are 2 stories that feel like they are Generic Sci-Fi with oodles of correction fluid used to make them (barely) fit into the Honorverse. "Miss Midshipman Harrington" and "Let's Dance" on the other hand gives us a glimpse of what HH was like as a young leader and the obstacles she faced prior to OBS.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
Top
Re: Lord Breakwater
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Thu May 05, 2022 1:06 pm

ThinksMarkedly
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 4103
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:39 am

Theemile wrote:"A ship called Francis", and "Let's go to Prague" are 2 stories that feel like they are Generic Sci-Fi with oodles of correction fluid used to make them (barely) fit into the Honorverse. "Miss Midshipman Harrington" and "Let's Dance" on the other hand gives us a glimpse of what HH was like as a young leader and the obstacles she faced prior to OBS.


Ah, right. You can skip the anthologies and HoS... but I've read them and recommend. I'd also recommend reading "Fanatic" before CoS.

As for "A ship called Francis," it's just pure fun! Bring out the potato sacks!

But if Michae has already read A Call to Arms (the book), there's no reason to read "A Call to Arms" (the short story in the anthology). It's reproduced verbatim in the book and it's just the story of how Lorelei Osterman died and thus the Osterman Cross was created.
Top
Re: Lord Breakwater
Post by sonex   » Thu May 05, 2022 1:22 pm

sonex
Lieutenant Commander

Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:37 pm
Location: Oregon, USA

Michae wrote:Yeah. I just finished the books my local library had available to find out they hadn't purchased A Time For Insurrection yet. I'd buy it myself,but unless I start stacking books on the floor, I don't have the space as I read a lot of fantasy and militsry SF books. I'm considering
starting on the Honor Harrington series,but seeing it's currently 14 books long and counting,that's a big investment.


My wife got me an 8" kindle a few years back. I now have a 10" one, as my eyes need bigger print. Over these years I gave away all my many paper books and now what I have are stored in the cloud! At last estimate, I have read around 500 books in the last four years. If you join Amazon Unlimited books, they come fast.
I have 23 or so Honorverse books and am on my sixth re-read. Fortunately I have Alzheimer's, so the books are always a good re-read. The e-books are also cheaper than paper books.

And welcome to the Honorverse!
:D
B.D.Harrington
Honor Harrington and Safehold nut.
Top
Re: Lord Breakwater
Post by tlb   » Thu May 05, 2022 7:57 pm

tlb
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 3854
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:34 am

Theemile wrote:I was speaking to the Anthologies.

"A ship called Francis", and "Let's go to Prague" are 2 stories that feel like they are Generic Sci-Fi with oodles of correction fluid used to make them (barely) fit into the Honorverse. "Miss Midshipman Harrington" and "Let's Dance" on the other hand gives us a glimpse of what HH was like as a young leader and the obstacles she faced prior to OBS.

I argue that the anthologies are where writers are invited to try out for the Honorverse, but their efforts only count if what they do results in changes in the main line books. So David Drake, as an example was invited to write a story that had no effect in the Honorverse; but is interesting historically because it inspired his series about the Republic of Cinnabar Navy featuring Daniel Leary and Lady Adele Mundy, whose characters were based on those in the story.

Therefore Eric Flint's stories have joined the canon with everything written by David Weber; but other stories like "A ship called Francis", and "Let's go to Prague" are failed attempts to join in the fun. We owe Eric Flint for starting the changes that kept Honor alive through the Battle of Manticore by fleshing out Anton Zilwicki and Kevin Usher and introducing Victor Cachat.
Top
Re: Lord Breakwater
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Thu May 05, 2022 11:24 pm

ThinksMarkedly
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 4103
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:39 am

tlb wrote:I argue that the anthologies are where writers are invited to try out for the Honorverse, but their efforts only count if what they do results in changes in the main line books. So David Drake, as an example was invited to write a story that had no effect in the Honorverse; but is interesting historically because it inspired his series about the Republic of Cinnabar Navy featuring Daniel Leary and Lady Adele Mundy, whose characters were based on those in the story.

Therefore Eric Flint's stories have joined the canon with everything written by David Weber; but other stories like "A ship called Francis", and "Let's go to Prague" are failed attempts to join in the fun. We owe Eric Flint for starting the changes that kept Honor alive through the Battle of Manticore by fleshing out Anton Zilwicki and Kevin Usher and introducing Victor Cachat.


And then there's Charles... he's been in the anthology stories twice and we still don't know who he's working for. I was hoping he'd return. I'm still hoping he'll return.
Top
Re: Lord Breakwater
Post by tlb   » Thu May 05, 2022 11:49 pm

tlb
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 3854
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:34 am

ThinksMarkedly wrote:And then there's Charles... he's been in the anthology stories twice and we still don't know who he's working for. I was hoping he'd return. I'm still hoping he'll return.

Do you mean Charles (no last name) from With One Stone by Timothy Zahn? Which showed the preliminary idea for FTL communication? I should have included that as a canon story as well.
Top
Re: Lord Breakwater
Post by Theemile   » Fri May 06, 2022 8:29 am

Theemile
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5060
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:50 pm
Location: All over the Place - Now Serving Dublin, OH

tlb wrote:
ThinksMarkedly wrote:And then there's Charles... he's been in the anthology stories twice and we still don't know who he's working for. I was hoping he'd return. I'm still hoping he'll return.

Do you mean Charles (no last name) from With One Stone by Timothy Zahn? Which showed the preliminary idea for FTL communication? I should have included that as a canon story as well.


Is it though? Is The Crusher really part of the Canon Honorverse? Was Honor's wedge waving really the inspiration for FTL commms?

I know Tim is now part of the Honorverse team, but those early Short stories still feel generic - So I personally put them in the "Less than Canonical" group. Anything David would refuse to discuss or we know would be on his retcon list, I prefer to consider "Less than Canonical" until otherwise informed.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
Top
Re: Lord Breakwater
Post by tlb   » Fri May 06, 2022 9:02 am

tlb
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 3854
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:34 am

ThinksMarkedly wrote:And then there's Charles... he's been in the anthology stories twice and we still don't know who he's working for. I was hoping he'd return. I'm still hoping he'll return.

tlb wrote:Do you mean Charles (no last name) from With One Stone by Timothy Zahn? Which showed the preliminary idea for FTL communication? I should have included that as a canon story as well.

Theemile wrote:Is it though? Is The Crusher really part of the Canon Honorverse? Was Honor's wedge waving really the inspiration for FTL commms?

I know Tim is now part of the Honorverse team, but those early Short stories still feel generic - So I personally put them in the "Less than Canonical" group. Anything David would refuse to discuss or we know would be on his retcon list, I prefer to consider "Less than Canonical" until otherwise informed.

I did not realize that RFC refuses to discuss this story as being the source of FTL communication. In that case, we only have David Weber and Eric Flint as authors of that part of the Honorverse inhabited by Honor Harrington herself.

How do we know what is on David's retcon list (aside from the grav-lance)?
Top
Re: Lord Breakwater
Post by Jonathan_S   » Fri May 06, 2022 9:44 am

Jonathan_S
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 8269
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:01 pm
Location: Virginia, USA

tlb wrote:I did not realize that RFC refuses to discuss this story as being the source of FTL communication. In that case, we only have David Weber and Eric Flint as authors of that part of the Honorverse inhabited by Honor Harrington herself.

It's not a horrible story -- but the phrasing of the conclusion rubbed me the wrong way.

Every engineer or scientist for the last 7 centuries who'd given even a passing through to the holy grail of faster than light communication would have jumped at the impeller wedge and Warshawski detector as the logical basis.

Right after Warshawski realized that her detector was seeing updated from impeller wedges at faster than light (which should have been almost immediately) there would have been an inevitable rush of scientists and engineers trying to turn that discovery into a workable FTL com system -- though they obviously failed. (Probably due to the size, cost, and performance limits of impeller nodes of the day -- but it's also possible the detection range on the original Warshawskis would have make for impractically short ranged FTL even if a useable data rate had been possible)


So Hempill's "revelation" shouldn't have been written as if Honor was the first person in history to realize you could use a signal that traveled faster than light to send data faster than light. But it was written like that (before she pondering how the new tech being developed might be turned to the problem of making this more practical). And that bugged me.

Instead I feel that it should have been written as Hemphill musing on how everyone had long ago given FTL comms up as one of those things that the engineering (for a practical version) just wasn't doable, despite the underlying physics being sound, but now that she's reminded of it there is all that new tech that might be turned to finally making it a practical reality.
Top
Re: Lord Breakwater
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Fri May 06, 2022 7:12 pm

ThinksMarkedly
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 4103
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:39 am

Jonathan_S wrote:Instead I feel that it should have been written as Hemphill musing on how everyone had long ago given FTL comms up as one of those things that the engineering (for a practical version) just wasn't doable, despite the underlying physics being sound, but now that she's reminded of it there is all that new tech that might be turned to finally making it a practical reality.


This makes far more sense. It's not that no one had ever thought of this, it's that Honor has just brought this to Sonja's attention. And Sonja would have known Project Ghost Rider (or its immediate predecessor) was working on a recon drone that would serve this purpose.

We know from A Call to Duty that people had been thinking about multi-drive missiles for centuries, even in the RMN when the RMN had no chance of producing its own missiles, much less a dual-drive one, so it wasn't Project Gram that first came up with the idea. In fact, we see the "FTL comm" in A Call to Vengeance, when one Axelrod ship strikes its wedge to communicate to the other Axelrod ship that it should execute some preplanned actions. That's a single bit of transmission, but it's FTL transmission nonetheless.

The big difference between this and Honor's actions is that Honor managed to hide the fact that communication was happening in the first place. Striking one's wedge is visible to anyone and everyone, who will wonder just why you've done it. Jeremiah Llyn didn't try to hide it either, he told Gensonne immediately why he'd done it.
Top

Return to Honorverse