Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

What next after To End in Fire

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:26 pm

ThinksMarkedly
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 3363
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:39 am

Brigade XO wrote:Heck selling the GA or the Alignment an engine that will do Warp 6 would change a few things. :)


Meh. Warp 6 is a mere 392c, using the TNG scale, according to the Star Trek Encyclopedia. Compare that to the beta band in the hyper band effective speed table.

FTL (subspace) sensors and long range FTL comms would be killer, though. The Honorverse doesn't even have FTL sensors, and its FTL comms are a mere 62c. Meanwhile, in the SNW "Lift Ws Where Cuffering Cannot Reach" episode two weeks ago, Spock said the effective speed of relayed subspace comms was around 52000c. And IIRC the Encyclopedia gave a number of just under 200,000c for TNG-era comms. Of course, the very next week (last week), SNW made a point of saying "comms will take two days" for only 20 minutes later have real-time communications...

Consistent, ST ain't.

Which reminds me, two new ST episodes today: Strange New Worlds and The Orville. :)
Top
Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by Jonathan_S   » Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:24 pm

Jonathan_S
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 7769
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:01 pm
Location: Virginia, USA

ThinksMarkedly wrote:
Brigade XO wrote:Heck selling the GA or the Alignment an engine that will do Warp 6 would change a few things. :)


Meh. Warp 6 is a mere 392c, using the TNG scale, according to the Star Trek Encyclopedia. Compare that to the beta band in the hyper band effective speed table.

FTL (subspace) sensors and long range FTL comms would be killer, though. The Honorverse doesn't even have FTL sensors, and its FTL comms are a mere 62c. Meanwhile, in the SNW "Lift Ws Where Cuffering Cannot Reach" episode two weeks ago, Spock said the effective speed of relayed subspace comms was around 52000c. And IIRC the Encyclopedia gave a number of just under 200,000c for TNG-era comms. Of course, the very next week (last week), SNW made a point of saying "comms will take two days" for only 20 minutes later have real-time communications...

Consistent, ST ain't.

Which reminds me, two new ST episodes today: Strange New Worlds and The Orville. :)

Ah - but would warp drive have the emergence signature that a hyper translation does? The MAlign might be very happy with a slow FTL drive that didn't announce itself when they arrived -- that'd be a wonderful complement to their spider drive (now they wouldn't have to drop in light months away from major systems, then sneak past the patrols sent out to investigate their emergence signature)

Heck, build a ships with both then use the Streak drive (letting a ship manage around 4,350c) to get within a few LY of the target, the drop back to normal space and slowly warp in that last little bit for your stealthy arrival :D :D


Also, while nowhere near as capable as Trek's FTL active sensors, the Honorverse does of course have passive sensors able to see the FTL signals produced by wedges, sails, grav waves, or FTL comms.
Top
Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:14 pm

ThinksMarkedly
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 3363
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:39 am

Jonathan_S wrote:Ah - but would warp drive have the emergence signature that a hyper translation does? The MAlign might be very happy with a slow FTL drive that didn't announce itself when they arrived -- that'd be a wonderful complement to their spider drive (now they wouldn't have to drop in light months away from major systems, then sneak past the patrols sent out to investigate their emergence signature)


Who says it doesn't? Some of the beta canon says that dropping out of warp does produce a burst of gamma rays. In fact, the books from about 15 years ago used to say that they were the causes of the Gamma Ray Bursts (GRBs) we could detect here on Earth and that we didn't yet understand.

And in any case, warp drive ships can be scanned with FTL sensors, so you can see them coming from light-years away. It would be typical of a Ferengi arms merchant to sell to both sides. After all, the 34th rule says "war is good for business." It's in not in the arms merchant's interest to make the war short... they need their clients (both of them) to keep buying.

Also, while nowhere near as capable as Trek's FTL active sensors, the Honorverse does of course have passive sensors able to see the FTL signals produced by wedges, sails, grav waves, or FTL comms.


Right, and there's no way of telling whether those sensors would be able to detect a warp bubble moving at FTL speeds. The Alcubierre equations make it a gravitational effect, after all.
Top
Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by munroburton   » Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:00 am

munroburton
Admiral

Posts: 2328
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:16 am
Location: Scotland

ThinksMarkedly wrote:
Brigade XO wrote:Heck selling the GA or the Alignment an engine that will do Warp 6 would change a few things. :)


Meh. Warp 6 is a mere 392c, using the TNG scale, according to the Star Trek Encyclopedia. Compare that to the beta band in the hyper band effective speed table.

FTL (subspace) sensors and long range FTL comms would be killer, though. The Honorverse doesn't even have FTL sensors, and its FTL comms are a mere 62c. Meanwhile, in the SNW "Lift Ws Where Cuffering Cannot Reach" episode two weeks ago, Spock said the effective speed of relayed subspace comms was around 52000c. And IIRC the Encyclopedia gave a number of just under 200,000c for TNG-era comms. Of course, the very next week (last week), SNW made a point of saying "comms will take two days" for only 20 minutes later have real-time communications...

Consistent, ST ain't.

Which reminds me, two new ST episodes today: Strange New Worlds and The Orville. :)


Warp drive works in real-space... which suggests that it might work in hyperspace too, with the same velocity multipliers operating. So warp 6 in the alpha bands could be 392*62 = 24,304c. :shock:
Top
Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by Theemile   » Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:22 am

Theemile
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 4723
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:50 pm
Location: All over the Place - Now Serving Dublin, OH

ThinksMarkedly wrote:
Brigade XO wrote:Heck selling the GA or the Alignment an engine that will do Warp 6 would change a few things. :)


Meh. Warp 6 is a mere 392c, using the TNG scale, according to the Star Trek Encyclopedia. Compare that to the beta band in the hyper band effective speed table.

FTL (subspace) sensors and long range FTL comms would be killer, though. The Honorverse doesn't even have FTL sensors, and its FTL comms are a mere 62c. Meanwhile, in the SNW "Lift Ws Where Cuffering Cannot Reach" episode two weeks ago, Spock said the effective speed of relayed subspace comms was around 52000c. And IIRC the Encyclopedia gave a number of just under 200,000c for TNG-era comms. Of course, the very next week (last week), SNW made a point of saying "comms will take two days" for only 20 minutes later have real-time communications...

Consistent, ST ain't.

Which reminds me, two new ST episodes today: Strange New Worlds and The Orville. :)


It's been mentioned before here -Ronald D. Moore once reminisced in an interview that TNG and later scripts usually had lines like:

Data: "To accomplish that we need to {tech} the {tech}"
Geordi: <picks up {tech}> and {techs} the {tech}>

Where they would later fit their nonsense tech babble into the script so it "Worked" - and after Ron admitted that, "{tech} the {tech}" has become almost synonymous with any time a writer is spouting "plot based physics" in their stories.

Yeah, Star Trek just does what it wants and is completely inconsistent - I was once a huge trekie with all the reference manuals to prove it; now, I never use would use Star Trek in comparison to anything else.

Nice to know they still {tech} the {tech} though.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
Top
Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by Brigade XO   » Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:24 pm

Brigade XO
Admiral

Posts: 2954
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:31 pm
Location: KY

With Warp Drive you don't have to come out of hyperspace as your not there to begin with. And .....given what we have seen Federation and Roman ships do over the last decade....you don't have to contend with the hyper limit. You can do all sorts of things with micro jumps using Warp Drive like pop around within a solar system. I probably said the Ferengi would sell them warp drive AND impulse drive....so NO wedge to be a beacon anybody will recognize with sensors.

Pop your ship effectively dead-relative to the planet at, say, 30,000km fire two loads of pods and a couple of volleys from your tubes and micro-jump 90º around the system and do it again. You pop up, launch a shitload of missiles, jump, do it again, jump a couple of light minutes further out in the system and watch it unfold
Sigh....not going to happen.
Top
Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:57 pm

ThinksMarkedly
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 3363
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:39 am

Brigade XO wrote:With Warp Drive you don't have to come out of hyperspace as your not there to begin with. And .....given what we have seen Federation and Roman ships do over the last decade....you don't have to contend with the hyper limit. You can do all sorts of things with micro jumps using Warp Drive like pop around within a solar system. I probably said the Ferengi would sell them warp drive AND impulse drive....so NO wedge to be a beacon anybody will recognize with sensors.

Pop your ship effectively dead-relative to the planet at, say, 30,000km fire two loads of pods and a couple of volleys from your tubes and micro-jump 90º around the system and do it again. You pop up, launch a shitload of missiles, jump, do it again, jump a couple of light minutes further out in the system and watch it unfold
Sigh....not going to happen.


The same Ferengi would probably also make a killing by selling smart missiles to the ST races. Their battles are at insanely short distances and we've seen torpedoes change course exactly once.
Top
Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:59 am

Loren Pechtel
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1226
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:24 pm

ThinksMarkedly wrote:The same Ferengi would probably also make a killing by selling smart missiles to the ST races. Their battles are at insanely short distances and we've seen torpedoes change course exactly once.


Honorverse missiles couldn't catch a ST ship. Being able to catch your target is more important than accuracy.
Top
Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:01 pm

ThinksMarkedly
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 3363
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:39 am

Loren Pechtel wrote:Honorverse missiles couldn't catch a ST ship. Being able to catch your target is more important than accuracy.


Makes you wonder why they don't just keep doing warp hops during battles, instead of taking on the shields.

Micro-Picard Manoeuvres
Top
Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by Brigade XO   » Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:03 pm

Brigade XO
Admiral

Posts: 2954
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:31 pm
Location: KY

ThinksMarkedly wrote:
Loren Pechtel wrote:Honorverse missiles couldn't catch a ST ship. Being able to catch your target is more important than accuracy.


Makes you wonder why they don't just keep doing warp hops during battles, instead of taking on the shields.

Micro-Picard Manoeuvres


They write within the parameters of the author/studio/ director etc. Whatever cycle time is needed between micro-jumps, it would seem to be a lot less than an Honorverse ship's time. That and they can effectively do it almost anywhere in a system and perhaps end up weapons-to-target instead of needing to fire off-bore. Of course, other than photon torpedoes which have to leave their launchers and go "some" distance (sometimes a really tight arc) phaser emitters seem to be able to fire almost anywhere in 360 in the hemisphere from the "face" of the emitter (subject only to what part of their own ship might get in the way). While we don't usually see ST ships doing a lot of maneuvering in 3 dimensions (there is a lot to Spock's observation about two demential thinking), given the dynamics of warp and control it is entirely possible that you could micro-jump to a point relative to where your target is plowed to move but be 90º "overhead" and fire such that you are going to shoot through their dorsal surface. Now against an Honoverse ship with a Wedge, that would be a terrible idea, but if you went to only 45º of the target's side.....blow right though them and pop away. In fact, they did that really early in the ST Discover series with the help of that guy that was too linked in with the "water bear" creature. Your are your own swam of really amped up killer hornets. :)
Top

Return to Honorverse