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What next after To End in Fire

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Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:05 pm

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jzulauf530 wrote:The huge red flag to the GA should be the fact that they didn't run into the weapon systems they *know* the alignment had to have to execute Oyster Bay. No spider drive starships or missiles were used.

This seems like a huge blunder from the MA's point of view. Might as well scream, "nah, nah, missed me!"


Hello jzulauf530, welcome to the forum! Grab an Old Tilman and make yourself comfortable.

We've discussed that previously and the general consensus was the same as your conclusion: the GA shouldn't be fooled. There could be some upcoming Plot Twists by RFC that we don't see coming and could change that, though.

That doesn't mean the non-GA people won't get fooled, though. The public at large may be disinclined to believe that magic undetectable weapons existed in the first place, so support for finding the MAlign / "The Other Guys" may dwindle and fizzle out.
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Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by dscott8   » Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:37 am

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After reading five pages of speculation, mostly centered around who has what hardware and who knows it, I am moved to mention that the whole saga is built around characters. The hardware is a set of tools to move the plot along, but I feel that the finale is going to come down to a face to face confrontation between the Detweilers and our heroes. There will be space battles and intrigue to bring them together, but in the end, I believe that Honor will have to face her personal revenge demons when she finally has her hands on the Detweilers' throats.

I have an idea in the back of my mind about the final scene of the saga, and it's driven by the characters of the various people involved. I'd rather see the climax as a personal moment for Honor than just "boom, the bad guys are all blown up!"
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Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:49 pm

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dscott8 wrote:After reading five pages of speculation, mostly centered around who has what hardware and who knows it, I am moved to mention that the whole saga is built around characters. The hardware is a set of tools to move the plot along, but I feel that the finale is going to come down to a face to face confrontation between the Detweilers and our heroes. There will be space battles and intrigue to bring them together, but in the end, I believe that Honor will have to face her personal revenge demons when she finally has her hands on the Detweilers' throats.


That's true, but that doesn't tell us how this will come to pass or how many books it will take to tell the story. We can make some inferences about what's going to happen next based on technology and what's known and not known, though. That's why the discussion went that way.
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Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by dscott8   » Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:34 pm

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:That's true, but that doesn't tell us how this will come to pass or how many books it will take to tell the story. We can make some inferences about what's going to happen next based on technology and what's known and not known, though. That's why the discussion went that way.


Given that there's not supposed to be any more main line Honor books, my assumption is that Cachat and Zilwicki will carry the bulk of the investigation, but when Honor hears that they actually have the locus and identity of the people who ordered the Yawata Strike, she'll come out of retirement with blood in her eye. That could take one book or ten, but in the end, she'll be faced with the choice of personal vengeance or civilized procedural justice.

I picture the final scene, after the combined might of the Grand Alliance and Torch have conquered the Alliance's secret base. They finally have all the Detweilers in custody, and are arguing about who has jurisdiction to try them and whether they have enough evidence, when Victor Cachat makes the whole question moot by shooting every one of the Detweilers right through the brain.

When the others question him, Cachat simply explains that he's just doing his job as a sworn law enforcement officer of a nation signatory to the Cherwell Convention, which makes known slavers subject to summary execution. The rest of the Renaissance Factor is put on notice that they're going to be closely watched, and everyone goes home to watch Preston Of The Spaceways cartoons with their kids.
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Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by Brigade XO   » Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:00 pm

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dscott8 wrote:
I picture the final scene, after the combined might of the Grand Alliance and Torch have conquered the Alliance's secret base. They finally have all the Detweilers in custody, and are arguing about who has jurisdiction to try them and whether they have enough evidence, when Victor Cachat makes the whole question moot by shooting every one of the Detweilers right through the brain.

When the others question him, Cachat simply explains that he's just doing his job as a sworn law enforcement officer of a nation signatory to the Cherwell Convention, which makes known slavers subject to summary execution. The rest of the Renaissance Factor is put on notice that they're going to be closely watched, and everyone goes home to watch Preston Of The Spaceways cartoons with their kids.



Nice clean solution. But did they get all the tubed and cryo-stored materials at Secret Base (undisclosed location at least 2500 lys from Darius? You know, the one where they have been building the next "next generation" of spider ships and The Plan has been modified to periodically send ships back to "Normal Controlled Space" and snuff out every system which hyperspace tech? After all, they have proven themselves too unruly to be ruled so just kill them and rebuild the Detweiler Vision is perfect locked cast system?
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Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by Theemile   » Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:17 pm

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Brigade XO wrote:
dscott8 wrote:
I picture the final scene, after the combined might of the Grand Alliance and Torch have conquered the Alliance's secret base. They finally have all the Detweilers in custody, and are arguing about who has jurisdiction to try them and whether they have enough evidence, when Victor Cachat makes the whole question moot by shooting every one of the Detweilers right through the brain.

When the others question him, Cachat simply explains that he's just doing his job as a sworn law enforcement officer of a nation signatory to the Cherwell Convention, which makes known slavers subject to summary execution. The rest of the Renaissance Factor is put on notice that they're going to be closely watched, and everyone goes home to watch Preston Of The Spaceways cartoons with their kids.



Nice clean solution. But did they get all the tubed and cryo-stored materials at Secret Base (undisclosed location at least 2500 lys from Darius? You know, the one where they have been building the next "next generation" of spider ships and The Plan has been modified to periodically send ships back to "Normal Controlled Space" and snuff out every system which hyperspace tech? After all, they have proven themselves too unruly to be ruled so just kill them and rebuild the Detweiler Vision is perfect locked cast system?



Don't tell me - the moment Darius fell, a signal went out and in the secret base, lights suddenly turned on, computers started to blink, chemicals started to mix, and a baby Detweiler started to grow in a cloning vat?

it could end up something like this....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv2v1csnMyg
Last edited by Theemile on Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by dscott8   » Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:20 pm

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Brigade XO wrote:Nice clean solution. But did they get all the tubed and cryo-stored materials at Secret Base (undisclosed location at least 2500 lys from Darius? You know, the one where they have been building the next "next generation" of spider ships and The Plan has been modified to periodically send ships back to "Normal Controlled Space" and snuff out every system which hyperspace tech? After all, they have proven themselves too unruly to be ruled so just kill them and rebuild the Detweiler Vision is perfect locked cast system?


Did I forget to mention the fleet of treecat-sized stealth ships that will spread across the galaxy, turning loose treecat Marines with shoulder-holstered mini-pulsers on anyone whose mind-glow contains loyalty to the evil genetic master plan? Or the subliminal messages imbedded in Preston Of The Spaceways cartoons designed to trigger the suicide protocols of anyone who got far enough into The Onion to have them installed? How about the partnership between Torch and Beowulf to produce 180 million clones of Victor Cachat to police the known galaxy? Or the development of young Raoul Harrington's mind powers to the point that he can detect evil doers at a range of 100 light years?

Well, that's all nonsense, but the truth is that the still-undiscovered eighth terminus of the Manticoran Wormhole leads to Deep Space Nine. Merely 12 years after that discovery, the Detweiler Conspiracy will be flat broke, having dealt with the Ferengi. :D
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Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by tlb   » Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:52 pm

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Brigade XO wrote:Nice clean solution. But did they get all the tubed and cryo-stored materials at Secret Base (undisclosed location at least 2500 lys from Darius? You know, the one where they have been building the next "next generation" of spider ships and The Plan has been modified to periodically send ships back to "Normal Controlled Space" and snuff out every system which hyperspace tech? After all, they have proven themselves too unruly to be ruled so just kill them and rebuild the Detweiler Vision is perfect locked cast system?

I agree that if the Detweilers are the excellent planners that the Board thinks that they are, then such a base should exist. Up until Darius falls, the Plan has been to take over normal human space as a way to stick their thumb into the eyes of the "fools" at Beowulf. If the solution is to build a "perfect" society without regard to the rest of the universe; then they could do that at Darius without any other contact, except with the Renaissance Factor. It is only in trying to meddle militarily with others, that their plans get subverted.

Despite the opinions of some others in the forum, I do not expect the author to build in a reign of terror to the stories; but we shall see one way or another (I hope).
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Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:03 pm

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dscott8 wrote:Well, that's all nonsense, but the truth is that the still-undiscovered eighth terminus of the Manticoran Wormhole leads to Deep Space Nine. Merely 12 years after that discovery, the Detweiler Conspiracy will be flat broke, having dealt with the Ferengi. :D


15th Rule of Acquisition: Dead men close no deals.

There's no profit in killing your customers. Instead, the 57th rule says: Good customers are as rare as latinum—treasure them.

They'll probably come up with a new rule to deal with the Detweilers: Galactic domination by force costs too much.
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Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by Brigade XO   » Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:41 pm

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Since you got the Ferengi involved.........

The Detweilers haven't run into the Ferengi before, nor anyone who has dealt with them it will come as a major surprise when the canny Ferengi merchant collects all sorts of details and heads off to find "Manticore and the GA" to sell them the who bundle for a few hundred thousand tons of gold-pressed latinum

Heck selling the GA or the Alignment an engine that will do Warp 6 would change a few things. :)
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