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What next after To End in Fire

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Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by tlb   » Fri Oct 28, 2022 7:22 pm

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redemption wrote:But I do think there is an entire completly different aspect. The fact we have "other alignment" on old terra will come into fact. What is their relation to the inner council on Darius. What does their Janus protocol mean towards their view against the Detwillers as Antowne pointed out her disagreement with the "speciation of human race". Was Phoebe just touting the party line when she was talking to Audrey and was she or not aware Darius was responsible for the Yawatta and Beowulf strikes. These are questions that I could see could lead to knoweldge of Darius getting out from.

I believe that Audrey was being lied to as part of the cover story that Galton was the "bad" alignment, compared to the other one hiding out there that is the "good" alignment. However, since there actually is a good alignment (now the Engagement) on Mesa; why would a truly good alignment need to hide?
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Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by redemption   » Fri Oct 28, 2022 7:33 pm

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tlb wrote:
redemption wrote:But I do think there is an entire completly different aspect. The fact we have "other alignment" on old terra will come into fact. What is their relation to the inner council on Darius. What does their Janus protocol mean towards their view against the Detwillers as Antowne pointed out her disagreement with the "speciation of human race". Was Phoebe just touting the party line when she was talking to Audrey and was she or not aware Darius was responsible for the Yawatta and Beowulf strikes. These are questions that I could see could lead to knoweldge of Darius getting out from.

I believe that Audrey was being lied to as part of the cover story that Galton was the "bad" alignment, compared to the other one hiding out there that is the "good" alignment. However, since there actually is a good alignment (now the Engagement) on Mesa; why would a truly good alignment need to hide?


I would tend to agree on Phoebe, but for her to even hint at the idea of another planet full of detwiller and other genotypes if it was just to trick her, seems awefully dangerous in the end. For how many people have been killed just to keep Darius a secret. We also know Honor was of the same lost alpha line something a lot of people theorized about her genie mods for a long time. It just feels stupid if phoebe would even mention the idea there was another planet out there no matter how well it might turn Audrey's opinon in the short time. In the long term that knoweldge is a sword of damacleus especially since she is going to be spending a lot of time on Galton with all the investigators. It makes more sense if Phoebe is actually connected with some people on the inner council on Darius and why would they need a janus protocol unless its to hide their opposition to detwiller.
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Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Fri Oct 28, 2022 7:52 pm

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tlb wrote:However, since there actually is a good alignment (now the Engagement) on Mesa; why would a truly good alignment need to hide?


That's the million credit question. Audrey is smart, so she may ask that. But she's also got a major blind spot.
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Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by redemption   » Fri Oct 28, 2022 8:04 pm

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
tlb wrote:However, since there actually is a good alignment (now the Engagement) on Mesa; why would a truly good alignment need to hide?


That's the million credit question. Audrey is smart, so she may ask that. But she's also got a major blind spot.



Agreed. Also I think being around the investigators on Galton especially around the cats and harahaps connection especially with her mentioning things like evil twin twice in the presecence of nimitz and honor already. The knoweldge of the other planet told to her from phoebe will come out. And we also have Antowne purpoself wanting to fly so she could talk to Zach unrecorded. It just seems like its not the modus apperendi of the Detwiller plan, it feels like direct opposition or atleast a different agenda in the inner council itself. Clearly the janus protocol is to get around the suicide nanotech or disapear them.
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Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by tlb   » Thu Nov 10, 2022 12:11 pm

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Is there a map of the Honorverse that shows Mannerheim and the members of the Renaissance Factor? The last map I have seen fills in Calvin's Hope, but I do not remember ever seeing the bottom right filled in, where I imagine the RF to be.
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Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Fri Nov 11, 2022 12:13 am

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tlb wrote:Is there a map of the Honorverse that shows Mannerheim and the members of the Renaissance Factor? The last map I have seen fills in Calvin's Hope, but I do not remember ever seeing the bottom right filled in, where I imagine the RF to be.


No, we don't know where they are.
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Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by Garth 2   » Mon Dec 05, 2022 3:15 pm

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Ways for the Grand Alliance to get a lead on Darius:

1. O'Hanrahan

During or after her investigation of Galton, she is going to head back to Mesan Republic to follow up on something with Engagement (probably Saburo Lara partner) in which she mentions something offhanded that gets passed to Saburo, who with the remaining "Ghost Hunters" get them to go "she said what!".
This causes them to take a closer look at O'Hanrahan, leading them to her handler.

2. Jessica Milliken,
Ruth is going to show that the "Detweiler Plan" has already worked and that "Benjamin Detweiler and his people" are a danger to the galaxy.

3. The SL ONI and internal security
These agencies are not going to stop looking for MA Agents, which as they found the bio-nanos means that they can probably develop a test system for them which will identify a weak link in the MA Earth structure.

4. Finding Galton
We know that Darius is on the end of the "twins" which is near Mannerheim as their vessels were protecting the twin end, what would be the chances that one of the Grand Alliances vessels spotted something (but hasn't reported back yet).

5. Take down of Manpower

As for Phobe, she was definitely a "MA Agent" and not part of the other conspiracy on Darius.
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Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by Theemile   » Tue Dec 06, 2022 2:26 pm

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Garth 2 wrote:Ways for the Grand Alliance to get a lead on Darius:

1. O'Hanrahan

During or after her investigation of Galton, she is going to head back to Mesan Republic to follow up on something with Engagement (probably Saburo Lara partner) in which she mentions something offhanded that gets passed to Saburo, who with the remaining "Ghost Hunters" get them to go "she said what!".
This causes them to take a closer look at O'Hanrahan, leading them to her handler.

2. Jessica Milliken,
Ruth is going to show that the "Detweiler Plan" has already worked and that "Benjamin Detweiler and his people" are a danger to the galaxy.

3. The SL ONI and internal security
These agencies are not going to stop looking for MA Agents, which as they found the bio-nanos means that they can probably develop a test system for them which will identify a weak link in the MA Earth structure.

4. Finding Galton
We know that Darius is on the end of the "twins" which is near Mannerheim as their vessels were protecting the twin end, what would be the chances that one of the Grand Alliances vessels spotted something (but hasn't reported back yet).

5. Take down of Manpower

As for Phobe, she was definitely a "MA Agent" and not part of the other conspiracy on Darius.


4) No, this is not true.

Felix, with it's "undocumented" wormhole junction is 10 ly from Mannerheim. One of it's legs goes to the Twins which is an undocumented position. The Mannpower BCs which guarded the Twins-Torch terminus reached the Twins system via the Felix junction.

Twins doesn't lead to Darius, it leads to Felix. Darius is on a different leg.

To go to the Twins (or Darius) via Felix you need to :

1) find out there is a wormhole there
2) take over the system by destroying/driving out the Mannereim forces
3) Assuming Mannerheim will not allow their junction control to fall to invaders (Since they are Mesan, they won't), you will need to map the wormhole terminuses, entrance and exit lanes, and wormholes themselves.
4) Send scouts through to map the far side.
5) Invade

So the chances for getting anything from Felix is.... difficult to say the least, and the Twins will get you nothing, other than knowledge of the Felix wormhole - if you are lucky.
******
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Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by phillies   » Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:10 pm

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
tlb wrote:However, since there actually is a good alignment (now the Engagement) on Mesa; why would a truly good alignment need to hide?


That's the million credit question. Audrey is smart, so she may ask that. But she's also got a major blind spot.


Because people are plotting to destroy it, or would be, if they knew about it.
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Re: What next after To End in Fire
Post by tlb   » Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:31 pm

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tlb wrote:However, since there actually is a good alignment (now the Engagement) on Mesa; why would a truly good alignment need to hide?

ThinksMarkedly wrote:That's the million credit question. Audrey is smart, so she may ask that. But she's also got a major blind spot.

phillies wrote:Because people are plotting to destroy it, or would be, if they knew about it.

Please explain. The good alignment on Mesa (called the Engagement now, I believe) has always been in a position were it could be destroyed, but instead has been tolerated as an opposition group. To a certain extent this is because the Onion was using it as a cover and a place to recruit. So why would anyone care about a "good" (meaning non-violent) group that cut itself off from all but the smallest contact in order to hide? That may protect themselves from infiltration, but it also cuts them off from information and influence (except at a clandestine level).
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