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SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!

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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by Fox2!   » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:10 pm

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Brigade XO wrote:
She does come by this stuff honestly. Dad (along with being brother of the Emperes) is former Naval Office with a really interesting record.


Isn't Michael still on active duty as the equivalent of the A-6 (Communications/Electronics) for the RMN?
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by Brigade XO   » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:41 pm

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Galton never had a need to know about the RF....would you spread that information to someplace you were going to sacrifice with the possibility that some mention of it would survive? It's the same reason as not letting anyone but a very few senior leaders of Galton know about Darius

Galton, with SD. They built them or they had to buy them and buying them would leave a paper trail for people to find.
So, ok Galton was planned and settled and organized as an arsenal world for the Alignment. It was building lots of missiles and it builds other things. But other than shipping vast quantities of materials off the the Alignment though various cut-outs and doing things like supplying the PRH Navy in Exile in the same manner, who the heck are they also dealing with.

This is a star system planned to be a fortress and arsenal. They are cranking out "things" in terms of war materials and ships. Ok, the Alignment is probably paying for stuff or perhaps not. How, exactly, does Galton survive as a heavily industrialized and militarized system? Does it import anything- other than information from the Alignment? Does it export and get paid for anything? Building hyper-capable star ships would appear to be expensive but there is no trade that we know of other than transfers we could infer to the Alignment directly or it's cat's paws.

Where are the Streak Drive ships built? Is that Darius, because putting the construction at Galton would leave information (and tech) to be found unless ALL the yards were part of Alamo and you could guarantee nobody who knew anything of building them would die? Do those same shipyards at Galton build merchant shipping and, if so, is it primarily to provide a source of ships for the various covert and sub-rosa operations of the Alignment. They could be building almost any type of common SL or other set of neck ships they could get their hand on (actual plans etc or buy a ship and just copy it with their own upgrades.

Who, other than Alignment crews at any level or remove have actualy been to Galton? We don't know. We do know that Hole-In-The Wall existed but I find it hard to believe that Galton would let anybody that touched there continue on to Galton.

So many questions. :)
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:27 pm

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Brigade XO wrote:Where are the Streak Drive ships built? Is that Darius, because putting the construction at Galton would leave information (and tech) to be found unless ALL the yards were part of Alamo and you could guarantee nobody who knew anything of building them would die? Do those same shipyards at Galton build merchant shipping and, if so, is it primarily to provide a source of ships for the various covert and sub-rosa operations of the Alignment. They could be building almost any type of common SL or other set of neck ships they could get their hand on (actual plans etc or buy a ship and just copy it with their own upgrades.


Definitely Darius. We had first hand accounts of people in Darius seeing them being built. Therefore, Darius can build them. Whether somewhere else can also build them is an unknown. I wouldn't put it past the MAlign's paranoia, but it's unlikely.

I doubt that the Galton shipyards build merchant shipping aside from strictly what Galton needs to ship its own stuff to where the MAlign needs it to go. So maybe a few streak boats and couriers that we've seen used, and that freigher that delivered the Silver Bullet to the rendezvous in the middle of nowhere.

Who, other than Alignment crews at any level or remove have actualy been to Galton? We don't know. We do know that Hole-In-The Wall existed but I find it hard to believe that Galton would let anybody that touched there continue on to Galton.

So many questions. :)


Aye, I doubt that anyone who is at Hole-In-The-Wall has ever visited Galton. But the people who've brought them stuff might. I doubt that they've come from Darius, though, which is how that secrecy is maintained.
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by cthia   » Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:50 pm

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
Brigade XO wrote:Where are the Streak Drive ships built? Is that Darius, because putting the construction at Galton would leave information (and tech) to be found unless ALL the yards were part of Alamo and you could guarantee nobody who knew anything of building them would die? Do those same shipyards at Galton build merchant shipping and, if so, is it primarily to provide a source of ships for the various covert and sub-rosa operations of the Alignment. They could be building almost any type of common SL or other set of neck ships they could get their hand on (actual plans etc or buy a ship and just copy it with their own upgrades.


Definitely Darius. We had first hand accounts of people in Darius seeing them being built. Therefore, Darius can build them. Whether somewhere else can also build them is an unknown. I wouldn't put it past the MAlign's paranoia, but it's unlikely.

I doubt that the Galton shipyards build merchant shipping aside from strictly what Galton needs to ship its own stuff to where the MAlign needs it to go. So maybe a few streak boats and couriers that we've seen used, and that freigher that delivered the Silver Bullet to the rendezvous in the middle of nowhere.

Who, other than Alignment crews at any level or remove have actualy been to Galton? We don't know. We do know that Hole-In-The Wall existed but I find it hard to believe that Galton would let anybody that touched there continue on to Galton.

So many questions. :)


Aye, I doubt that anyone who is at Hole-In-The-Wall has ever visited Galton. But the people who've brought them stuff might. I doubt that they've come from Darius, though, which is how that secrecy is maintained.

It still doesn't add up. There were only 20 of them there. If they started building them when you guys suggest, they would have more than 20 built. If they began building them much later, who were they building them to fight? They didn't seem to need them for System defense, and they certainly couldn't have been planning an assault with them. And I doubt they would have been used to guard the gate. They were too inferior to guard their wormhole.

I have been meaning to reread certain passages. During the battle, all of Honor's comms were patched through to a Darius officer on one of the stations. I don't think Galton's officers were cleared to communicate with the GA. Was it because they would drop dead from being questioned? Or was it to further keep them out of the loop, so they would not be privy to what was actually going on. I couldn't tell whether they were still able to hear the exchange.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:05 am

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cthia wrote:What proof is there that they were built at Galton? A lot of things don't sit right with me. Only 20 SDs. I don't recall any mention of there being any unfinished ships in the slips. Only 20 SDs were planned? For what?

Don't you wonder what capabilities those SDs had? Why build SDs if they are no more capable than the obsolete Solly junk? And if they are only on a par with SLN ships, then, again, why build them? Certainly not in anticipation to fight the SLN. The SLN couldn't have taken Galton even without the SDs.

So, I ask again, what was the meaning of those SDs? I suppose one could argue that Galton isn't aware of Darius and that they couldn't have come from Darius. But what about the Renaissance Factor? Where are the shipyards for the RF?

Galton isn't aware of Darius. Are they aware of the RF?


I think they were a system defense force, meant to obliterate any pirate or the like that ventured by. They weren't replaced with modern designs because they're still good enough for the only mission they had. The MA doesn't have that much in the way of truly modern weapons yet.
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by Brigade XO   » Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:20 am

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Wait, what wormhole for Galton? I don't recall a wormhole nearby in getting to Galton. Nobody described getting Honor from anywhere to Galton. She more or less shows up with a large mixed fleet of GA and friends warships. I'm sure there was at least one wormhole transit (possibly getting everybody to Manticore area) but a wormhole that Galton has by it's star.....not so much.

And while Galton might have been worried about an attack (it was built as a fortress location) I doubt "pirates" would have been the problem unless you think that one of the nastier Transtellars had an actual fleet of ships in the Battleship to SD range or could field 10 to 15 BCs. You are talking a militarized system with significant forces both in fortresses and ships.

Who actually knew it was there and who- other than Galton crewed ships- would have been taking material out for delivery or bringing in items and what materials the system couldn't provide? We know that there is at least courier traffic from Darius (though the source was not known to more than apparently very few top officers) and we have seen that most pure Alignment crews stayed with their ships- no shore leave or trips to the ground or stations though their passengers and bodyguards would go out.

We can deduce from various scenes - like the Golden Butterfly ultimately running into trouble at Montana- that many. probably most- of the ships being operated as delivery or transport for many levels of Alignment operations were crewed by people who were esentially hired or subcontracted. Some were Jesyk or other transtellar shadow operations or just people who ended up owing too much or having past mistakes or crimes held over their heads to force their cooperation. We were told that the connection to Hole-In-The-Wall was as a labor source to allow the shipments of Catafracts to be loaded on what took them to the PRHN in Exile. That seemed to be because the ships that took the missiles to the 1st rendezvous - or perhaps the 2nd set that actually made the delivery and at least one set of ships didn't have adequate handling and transfer equipment to make the transfer so live bodies were required. Not sure how odd that is except that the transfer is including a lot of very large missiles and one would think that even those could be containerized for handling in large quantities. More Questions.!
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by Jonathan_S   » Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:52 am

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Brigade XO wrote:And while Galton might have been worried about an attack (it was built as a fortress location) I doubt "pirates" would have been the problem unless you think that one of the nastier Transtellars had an actual fleet of ships in the Battleship to SD range or could field 10 to 15 BCs. You are talking a militarized system with significant forces both in fortresses and ships.

Actually "significant forces" is probably a charming understatement. About 60 SDs, 1/3rd of them pod laying, puts Galton solidly in the top 10 largest navies in the Honorverse. Too bad it was in a fight with the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th largest combined.

That's way more of an SDF than you'd need to drive off pirates :D

[To give some perspective, Galton's fleet was about 2/3rds the size of Manticore's Home Fleet at the time of the BoM; and backed by what seems like even more significant fortifications that Manticore had. Though, to be fair, the RMN's Home Fleet had more firepower than that ratio implies because they were 46% podlayers, rather than only 29%. And there's no indication Galton had self-tractoring pods to give their SDs truly vast pod external pod loads]
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:01 pm

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Brigade XO wrote:And while Galton might have been worried about an attack (it was built as a fortress location) I doubt "pirates" would have been the problem unless you think that one of the nastier Transtellars had an actual fleet of ships in the Battleship to SD range or could field 10 to 15 BCs. You are talking a militarized system with significant forces both in fortresses and ships.


Pirates wouldn't be a problem in terms of actually doing anything. They could be a very big problem if they lived to tell the tale of an industrialized world out there. Thus Galton needed a very overstrength defense force--the real mission was to ensure secrecy, not merely make it too hazardous for pirates to operate there.
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by cthia   » Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:33 pm

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Loren Pechtel wrote:
Brigade XO wrote:And while Galton might have been worried about an attack (it was built as a fortress location) I doubt "pirates" would have been the problem unless you think that one of the nastier Transtellars had an actual fleet of ships in the Battleship to SD range or could field 10 to 15 BCs. You are talking a militarized system with significant forces both in fortresses and ships.


Pirates wouldn't be a problem in terms of actually doing anything. They could be a very big problem if they lived to tell the tale of an industrialized world out there. Thus Galton needed a very overstrength defense force--the real mission was to ensure secrecy, not merely make it too hazardous for pirates to operate there.

Excellent point, and I was late to the party figuring that out too. I also asked myself, why would a pirate bother with a system that has no useful planets. But then, there was always a chance that the rendezvous ships meeting way out there for exchanges could talk. And curiosity kills the cat, but only if you've got firepower to overwhelm the cat.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by cthia   » Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:35 pm

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Jonathan_S wrote:
Brigade XO wrote:And while Galton might have been worried about an attack (it was built as a fortress location) I doubt "pirates" would have been the problem unless you think that one of the nastier Transtellars had an actual fleet of ships in the Battleship to SD range or could field 10 to 15 BCs. You are talking a militarized system with significant forces both in fortresses and ships.

Actually "significant forces" is probably a charming understatement. About 60 SDs, 1/3rd of them pod laying, puts Galton solidly in the top 10 largest navies in the Honorverse. Too bad it was in a fight with the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th largest combined.

That's way more of an SDF than you'd need to drive off pirates :D

[To give some perspective, Galton's fleet was about 2/3rds the size of Manticore's Home Fleet at the time of the BoM; and backed by what seems like even more significant fortifications that Manticore had. Though, to be fair, the RMN's Home Fleet had more firepower than that ratio implies because they were 46% podlayers, rather than only 29%. And there's no indication Galton had self-tractoring pods to give their SDs truly vast pod external pod loads]

60 SDs? Did I miss something? There were only 20.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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