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SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!

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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by cthia   » Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:27 am

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Bruno Behrends wrote:
cthia wrote:I'm at a loss for words when it comes to Princess Ruth. Or rather, her choice of professions. I know she is good at spy stuff. But... but... but... a spy? I can't shake my feelings about that career path being so wrong and incompatible for a Princess. Am I wrong? After all, Michelle Henke is, what, fifth in line for succession? So why can't Ruth live on the edge as well. Although Michelle's profession keeps her safe behind a wall of battle. I dunno, anyone else feel uncomfortable with her being a spy?


This post astonishes me so much that I have to reply. Why would Ruth's descent be incompatible with being in the intelligence profession? I am honestly completely bewildered.

Swim upstream a bit and work your way down.

BTW, it astonishes Ruth too, as she made the same observation about her "descent," and that she is not actually in the line of succession. And that it shouldn't make a difference since Michelle gets to have fun doing dangerous stuff, and she is fifth in line. But, as Ruth herself testifies, it obviously does make a difference, since she is fussed over and kept in a box. Specifically because of her descent.

And it very well should, if she were in the line of succession.

Also, we are not talking about the intelligence profession, we are talking about being a spy.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by Brigade XO   » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:52 am

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Ruth is Michael's daughter- by adoption. She is not in the line of succession just like Ruth's mother is not because she is the wife of an heir, not an heir herself. If I remember correctly, Ruth is the daughter of a former leader of Masada....and was born there ---so more than technically, she does not qualify as heir and to be in the line of succession.
The books show her as chaffing under the restrictions of being the daughter of an heir. From the standpoint of wanting to go out and do things vs being a pampered princess I can see her point.

The comparison to Michelle Henke is somewhat valid although Mike went to the Naval Academy and that is an accepted job choice for persons not in the direct line of succession. On the other hand, she is a target to be sued to try and gain leverage of the Crown.....which is exactly what happened when she went to Torch. And it is somewhat safer if she was actually in the military rather than being sent on a diplomatic mission, certainly safer than if she was the sort pampered idiot who got running around with a fast crowed of other rich people and banked on her position and status to get her out of escapades.

She does come by this stuff honestly. Dad (along with being brother of the Emperes) is former Naval Office with a really interesting record. Mom is also no slouch- she helped organize and compleat the escape from her husband on Masda (along with sister-wives, other women and their children) by learning how to operate a hyperspace ship and rescue themselves from the whole Masada problem. So, yeah, the genetics and intelligence are there plus Ruth WANTS to do someting to serve, not just be decorative. Perhaps she might be safer and almost as useful working for ONI or even getting involved with somebody in Charles O'Daley's operations at Special Intelligence Service?
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by cthia   » Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:18 am

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Brigade XO wrote:Ruth is Michael's daughter- by adoption. She is not in the line of succession just like Ruth's mother is not because she is the wife of an heir, not an heir herself. If I remember correctly, Ruth is the daughter of a former leader of Masada....and was born there ---so more than technically, she does not qualify as heir and to be in the line of succession.
The books show her as chaffing under the restrictions of being the daughter of an heir. From the standpoint of wanting to go out and do things vs being a pampered princess I can see her point.

The comparison to Michelle Henke is somewhat valid although Mike went to the Naval Academy and that is an accepted job choice for persons not in the direct line of succession. On the other hand, she is a target to be sued to try and gain leverage of the Crown.....which is exactly what happened when she went to Torch. And it is somewhat safer if she was actually in the military rather than being sent on a diplomatic mission, certainly safer than if she was the sort pampered idiot who got running around with a fast crowed of other rich people and banked on her position and status to get her out of escapades.

She does come by this stuff honestly. Dad (along with being brother of the Emperes) is former Naval Office with a really interesting record. Mom is also no slouch- she helped organize and compleat the escape from her husband on Masda (along with sister-wives, other women and their children) by learning how to operate a hyperspace ship and rescue themselves from the whole Masada problem. So, yeah, the genetics and intelligence are there plus Ruth WANTS to do someting to serve, not just be decorative. Perhaps she might be safer and almost as useful working for ONI or even getting involved with somebody in Charles O'Daley's operations at Special Intelligence Service?

Mike isn't in the direct line of succession?

Ruth loves the work as an Intelligence Officer, but the job can get stale and monotonous, while sitting in front of a computer analyzing data most of the time. Her high score in her favorite game must be astronomically high.

How well does Ruth love this stuff? Ask Honor. Honor let the cat out of the bag during one of the brainstorming sessions that was analyzing the captured data ...

"Where is Ruth?" Honor smiled crookedly. "I wouldn't have thought you could have pried her away from something like this with a tractor beam!"


Can't you just see the hillarious images of circuitry exploding all over the ship if you tried?

"Perhaps we should use a presser beam Captain!"

"What will a presser beam do?!"

"I just thought since she's so anxious, it will make her overshoot her target!"

" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: "

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by cthia   » Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:33 am

cthia
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I previously thought this was crazy, and it probably is. But it keeps resurfacing in my "very different brain."


Tactical Analysis 3
City of Leonard


Enter Gail Weiss.

TEiF p. 398 (hardback) wrote:She stopped herself. Those were the type of questions she couldn't afford to ask anyone. Including herself.


Including herself? Does that imply that she could drop dead from thinking? Or simply that she can't afford to go down that road?

Because she would drop dead? LOL

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by tlb   » Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:51 am

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Brigade XO wrote:The comparison to Michelle Henke is somewhat valid although Mike went to the Naval Academy and that is an accepted job choice for persons not in the direct line of succession.

cthia wrote:Mike isn't in the direct line of succession?

I think it would better to say that Michele Henke is not in the immediate line of succession; since I think she is number five in line.
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by munroburton   » Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:42 pm

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tlb wrote:
Brigade XO wrote:The comparison to Michelle Henke is somewhat valid although Mike went to the Naval Academy and that is an accepted job choice for persons not in the direct line of succession.

cthia wrote:Mike isn't in the direct line of succession?

I think it would better to say that Michele Henke is not in the immediate line of succession; since I think she is number five in line.


In primogeniture, the "direct line" usually refers to the firstborn child of the sovereign, the firstborn of the sovereign's firstborn and so forth. In Manticore, this line is currently a dot - it begins and ends with crown prince Roger and will only extend with his first child.

The reason for this distinction lies in how someone as high as first-in-line can gradually slip down the succession due to the birth of others. For example, Elizabeth III's brother Michael was once first-in-line but became third-in-line when Elizabeth had her two children. And Roger III's sister Caitrin was also first-in-line but is now fourth. Those in the direct line cannot be displaced and are expected to become the sitting monarch eventually.
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by cthia   » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:35 pm

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tlb wrote:
Brigade XO wrote:The comparison to Michelle Henke is somewhat valid although Mike went to the Naval Academy and that is an accepted job choice for persons not in the direct line of succession.

cthia wrote:Mike isn't in the direct line of succession?

I think it would better to say that Michele Henke is not in the immediate line of succession; since I think she is number five in line.


munroburton wrote:In primogeniture, the "direct line" usually refers to the firstborn child of the sovereign, the firstborn of the sovereign's firstborn and so forth. In Manticore, this line is currently a dot - it begins and ends with crown prince Roger and will only extend with his first child.

The reason for this distinction lies in how someone as high as first-in-line can gradually slip down the succession due to the birth of others. For example, Elizabeth III's brother Michael was once first-in-line but became third-in-line when Elizabeth had her two children. And Roger III's sister Caitrin was also first-in-line but is now fourth. Those in the direct line cannot be displaced and are expected to become the sitting monarch eventually.

Thanks munroburton. Your explanation makes me recall an interesting thread that dealt with a lot of this subject matter. Even to the extreme of Honor assuming the throne. But I missed the distinction of the "direct line." Probably because I was too busy ordering my forces to scatter in that entertaining but quite controversial thread.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by cthia   » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:40 pm

cthia
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tlb wrote:If no knowledge of Darius is available at Galton, then isn't it true that there also can be no knowledge of the Renaissance Factor there? The problem being that both the Renaissance Factor leadership and elements of the Navy, know about Darius.

I haven't forgotten your request for proof about an implication of there being a third system. I got busy, holidays, and family business.

But don't quote me on it. I seem to recall wondering if yet that third system is where the RF navy is being built. After all, where were those 20 SD's at Galton built? I will continue to search for whatever it was that made me believe what I was being fed (a sleazy shot at O'Hanrahan).

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by tlb   » Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:16 pm

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tlb wrote:If no knowledge of Darius is available at Galton, then isn't it true that there also can be no knowledge of the Renaissance Factor there? The problem being that both the Renaissance Factor leadership and elements of the Navy, know about Darius.

cthia wrote:I haven't forgotten your request for proof about an implication of there being a third system. I got busy, holidays, and family business.

But don't quote me on it. I seem to recall wondering if yet that third system is where the RF navy is being built. After all, where were those 20 SD's at Galton built? I will continue to search for whatever it was that made me believe what I was being fed (a sleazy shot at O'Hanrahan).

Third system? I am not aware of a third system; but I did suggest that the leadership at Darius should search for other places where they could run, to guard against Darius being found.

Galton had a fully functional shipyard, so why would their ships be built elsewhere?
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:57 pm

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cthia wrote:After all, where were those 20 SD's at Galton built? I will continue to search for whatever it was that made me believe what I was being fed (a sleazy shot at O'Hanrahan).


Galton.
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