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SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!

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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by cthia   » Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:48 am

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tlb wrote:
cthia wrote:Agreed. Ruth isn't actually in the line of succession. Ruth states that herself in TEiF. Ruth also made the same annoyed remark about Michelle that I made.

But really, spy stuff can only be a hobby for her. Not her main career. Being Torch's Intelligence Officer is more her speed. And I can imagine that her other skills greatly enhances her ability in that capacity.

At any rate, the fact that she is being fussed over, as if she were in line, clips her wings.

I consider the Chief Intelligence Officer to be a spy (that is a real job, not just a hobby), the same as the CIA head is a spook. Ruth was never going to be sent undercover to infiltrate someplace. The adventure at Hole in the Wall is the closest she will every get.

I thought it was her mother and father that set the guard on her.

I think that is pushing the envelope a bit. But I do agree that the head of spook central is usually an experienced spook himself, who no longer does fieldwork. But not necessarily. And certainly not in our case. The Chief Intelligence Officer focuses the team and interprets the mounds of information. Like the job the MA "watchers" do to determine if someone needs to be silenced.

You may be right about who let the dogs out.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by zuluwiz   » Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:24 am

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It would seem to me that someone in her situation could write her own job description. As in: All right, there are things I cannot do, and there are things I can do. It is up to me to make it work. The only one that can tell me I'm wrong is the Queen, and I will confer with her as needed to do the job that needs done. I am the Head of Intelligence for the Kingdom of Torch, and there are no precedents for that position. It is likely best for the Kingdom if I do not place myself in too perilous a situation, but that is my (and the Queen's) call to make.
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by Jonathan_S   » Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:44 am

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zyffyr wrote:Of course, most of the time she won't be in a position to be doing field work because of her role as Head of Intelligence for Torch but the only person who has a realistic chance of making her stay home if she REALLY wants to go is Queen Berry.

And even if/when she's able to do field work it seems more likely that she'd be working as a hander, rather than as the agent working within the target organization/system/etc.

Spy movies aside spies normally aren't your own folks that you insert under cover into enemy organizations. The agents (spies) are almost always their people who have some motivation (political, ideological, financial) for sharing their secrets with you and your folks are the handlers that help keep them effective at remaining undetected and getting the information out.

Hander is usually less risky than being the actual agent.

But yeah, you're right that the vast majority of the time Ruth would be working as a "spy" several levels up from that -- piecing things together from the data coming in from all the agents of multiple handlers, plus open source material, and from that creating orders for what additional intelligence to pursue (or possibly even recommending covert, or overt, actions based on that intelligence)
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:26 pm

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cthia wrote:I'm at a loss for words when it comes to Princess Ruth. Or rather, her choice of professions. I know she is good at spy stuff. But... but... but... a spy? I can't shake my feelings about that career path being so wrong and incompatible for a Princess.


Do note this is the role that had been intended for Katherine. Raoul was going into the RMN, Katherine was going into intelligence.
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by cthia   » Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:41 pm

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zuluwiz wrote:It would seem to me that someone in her situation could write her own job description. As in: All right, there are things I cannot do, and there are things I can do. It is up to me to make it work. The only one that can tell me I'm wrong is the Queen, and I will confer with her as needed to do the job that needs done. I am the Head of Intelligence for the Kingdom of Torch, and there are no precedents for that position. It is likely best for the Kingdom if I do not place myself in too perilous a situation, but that is my (and the Queen's) call to make.

I would agree if all else were equal, but it has been proven that it is not. Since she is kept within a very constricting box. Or she would have been up close and personal on Hole-in-the-Wall. I don't want to go out on a limb and say she may have been able to accomplish more up close and personal. But I don't want to dismiss the possibility either. After all, in many ways she has eclipsed Anton.

But, her importance is what drives her grounding. Her loss would represent a severe emotional distress across several governments and families. And just might strain certain relations, political, public and private. Recall that Ruth herself hasn't forgiven Victor for letting her attachment die on that one occasion.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:33 pm

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cthia wrote:I would agree if all else were equal, but it has been proven that it is not. Since she is kept within a very constricting box. Or she would have been up close and personal on Hole-in-the-Wall. I don't want to go out on a limb and say she may have been able to accomplish more up close and personal. But I don't want to dismiss the possibility either. After all, in many ways she has eclipsed Anton.

But, her importance is what drives her grounding. Her loss would represent a severe emotional distress across several governments and families. And just might strain certain relations, political, public and private. Recall that Ruth herself hasn't forgiven Victor for letting her attachment die on that one occasion.


I'm sure she would have wanted to do fieldwork. And she might actually have been good at it. But you're right, she won't be doing any of that and we will never know.

But she's shown incredible analytical skills. Zilwicki says she might even be better than him at that. Cachat is now coaching her on handling people.

So why do you think she's not in the right career?
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by cthia   » Sun Nov 21, 2021 2:12 pm

cthia
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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
cthia wrote:I would agree if all else were equal, but it has been proven that it is not. Since she is kept within a very constricting box. Or she would have been up close and personal on Hole-in-the-Wall. I don't want to go out on a limb and say she may have been able to accomplish more up close and personal. But I don't want to dismiss the possibility either. After all, in many ways she has eclipsed Anton.

But, her importance is what drives her grounding. Her loss would represent a severe emotional distress across several governments and families. And just might strain certain relations, political, public and private. Recall that Ruth herself hasn't forgiven Victor for letting her attachment die on that one occasion.


I'm sure she would have wanted to do fieldwork. And she might actually have been good at it. But you're right, she won't be doing any of that and we will never know.

But she's shown incredible analytical skills. Zilwicki says she might even be better than him at that. Cachat is now coaching her on handling people.

So why do you think she's not in the right career?

No no no. You misunderstood me. Her main career as Torch's Intelligence Officer may be perfect for her. It is her "minor" in studies that is a little bit off centered. The fact that the two may have overlapping bailiwicks is besides the point, though I admitted upstream it might be an asset to her position on Torch.

But you have not read between the lines that if it were up to Ruth, a career as a spy would supersede her position on Torch. Indeed, if it were totally up to Ruth, her position on Torch wouldn't have taken fruit. She is just one of those career persons who didn't really get the career opportunity she really wanted. And she had to settle for a "lateral move."

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by Brigade XO   » Sun Nov 21, 2021 4:49 pm

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She's an analyst and developing strategic thinker.
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:15 pm

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cthia wrote:But you have not read between the lines that if it were up to Ruth, a career as a spy would supersede her position on Torch. Indeed, if it were totally up to Ruth, her position on Torch wouldn't have taken fruit. She is just one of those career persons who didn't really get the career opportunity she really wanted. And she had to settle for a "lateral move."


Completely agreed.
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Re: SPOILER SEASON IS OVER FOR TEiF!!!
Post by Bruno Behrends   » Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:02 am

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cthia wrote:I'm at a loss for words when it comes to Princess Ruth. Or rather, her choice of professions. I know she is good at spy stuff. But... but... but... a spy? I can't shake my feelings about that career path being so wrong and incompatible for a Princess. Am I wrong? After all, Michelle Henke is, what, fifth in line for succession? So why can't Ruth live on the edge as well. Although Michelle's profession keeps her safe behind a wall of battle. I dunno, anyone else feel uncomfortable with her being a spy?


This post astonishes me so much that I have to reply. Why would Ruth's descent be incompatible with being in the intelligence profession? I am honestly completely bewildered.
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