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Pawn - Q7 ... Checkmate?

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Re: Pawn - Q7 ... Checkmate?
Post by tlb   » Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:09 am

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Brigade XO wrote: LRPB appears to have actual control vs the present running of the the Alignment but what has been introduced into the Clones prior to all of this going on that could be used to snip off that particular leadership?

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Interesting thought. My first reaction is that the LRPB does what the Detweilers tell them to do. No one is going to cull Detweilers unless they themselves decide to do so. They're going to tell the LRPB what genetic modifications the next generation of Detweilers should have.

-- snip --

The Detweilers are above the LRPB, so if the True Believers are told there's a conflict, the answer on whose side to take is easy: the Detweilers.

For those that know the Detweilers exist in the first place, of course. For those that don't, the point is moot: they won't be consulted or asked to enforce anything.

cthia wrote:Hmm, the entire forum came to the conclusion that the hierarchy is either ...


1. BoD
2. LRPB
3. Detweilers

Where the absolute value of 1 and 2 are unknowns. The Detweilers may have a seat on the Board of Directors as all founders of a "business" usually do. But the BoD usually has the most shares, collectively, in the "business" and makes all of the major decisions for the shareholders. If the entire mess flows with the traditional "business" plan.

We have seen the Detweilers make decisions and the Malign organization has carried them out. We have not seen a Board of Directors. Why should we believe that there is a Board of Directors separate from the Detweilers themselves? What if there are no shareholders, but instead the Malign is wholly owned by the Detweilers? What evidence (aside from forum comments about "normal business practice") do we have for a Board of Directors existing?
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Re: Pawn - Q7 ... Checkmate?
Post by cthia   » Sat Feb 19, 2022 11:11 am

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tlb wrote:
Brigade XO wrote: LRPB appears to have actual control vs the present running of the the Alignment but what has been introduced into the Clones prior to all of this going on that could be used to snip off that particular leadership?

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Interesting thought. My first reaction is that the LRPB does what the Detweilers tell them to do. No one is going to cull Detweilers unless they themselves decide to do so. They're going to tell the LRPB what genetic modifications the next generation of Detweilers should have.

-- snip --

The Detweilers are above the LRPB, so if the True Believers are told there's a conflict, the answer on whose side to take is easy: the Detweilers.

For those that know the Detweilers exist in the first place, of course. For those that don't, the point is moot: they won't be consulted or asked to enforce anything.

cthia wrote:Hmm, the entire forum came to the conclusion that the hierarchy is either ...


1. BoD
2. LRPB
3. Detweilers

Where the absolute value of 1 and 2 are unknowns. The Detweilers may have a seat on the Board of Directors as all founders of a "business" usually do. But the BoD usually has the most shares, collectively, in the "business" and makes all of the major decisions for the shareholders. If the entire mess flows with the traditional "business" plan.

We have seen the Detweilers make decisions and the Malign organization has carried them out. We have not seen a Board of Directors. Why should we believe that there is a Board of Directors separate from the Detweilers themselves? What if there are no shareholders, but instead the Malign is wholly owned by the Detweilers? What evidence (aside from forum comments about "normal business practice") do we have for a Board of Directors existing?

You are mistaken. We have seen a BoD. I don't have searchable text at hand, so I can't. But I think it was in one of the Shadow books. The BoD is who gave the go ahead to allow the clones. And since that decision had to be passed along to the BoD, then it seems to imply the hierarchy.

It was probably something along the lines of "Ok, but they get no stock options." Because that could change the balance of power. Or they had limited stock options.

Stock options = controlling interest.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Pawn - Q7 ... Checkmate?
Post by tlb   » Sat Feb 19, 2022 2:17 pm

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cthia wrote: The Detweilers may have a seat on the Board of Directors as all founders of a "business" usually do. But the BoD usually has the most shares, collectively, in the "business" and makes all of the major decisions for the shareholders. If the entire mess flows with the traditional "business" plan.

tlb wrote:We have seen the Detweilers make decisions and the Malign organization has carried them out. We have not seen a Board of Directors. Why should we believe that there is a Board of Directors separate from the Detweilers themselves? What if there are no shareholders, but instead the Malign is wholly owned by the Detweilers? What evidence (aside from forum comments about "normal business practice") do we have for a Board of Directors existing?

cthia wrote:You are mistaken. We have seen a BoD. I don't have searchable text at hand, so I can't. But I think it was in one of the Shadow books. The BoD is who gave the go ahead to allow the clones. And since that decision had to be passed along to the BoD, then it seems to imply the hierarchy.

It was probably something along the lines of "Ok, but they get no stock options." Because that could change the balance of power. Or they had limited stock options.

Stock options = controlling interest.

Consider the entire discussion in chapter 10 of Storm from the Shadows, particularly the following quote:
Albrecht nodded slowly. Renzo Kyprianou was in charge of bio-weapons research and development and a member of the Mesan Strategy Council. At the moment, however, not even the Strategy Council knew everything the Alignment was up to.
Not surprisingly, I suppose, he mused, given that the Alignment's always been so much of a . . . family business.
His lips twitched in an almost-smile at the thought, and he wondered how many members of the Strategy Council had figured out just how close he truly was to his "sons."
What would stock options even mean in the Mesan Alignment? It is a terrorist organization, not a money making business.
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Re: Pawn - Q7 ... Checkmate?
Post by cthia   » Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:05 pm

cthia
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tlb wrote:
cthia wrote: The Detweilers may have a seat on the Board of Directors as all founders of a "business" usually do. But the BoD usually has the most shares, collectively, in the "business" and makes all of the major decisions for the shareholders. If the entire mess flows with the traditional "business" plan.

tlb wrote:We have seen the Detweilers make decisions and the Malign organization has carried them out. We have not seen a Board of Directors. Why should we believe that there is a Board of Directors separate from the Detweilers themselves? What if there are no shareholders, but instead the Malign is wholly owned by the Detweilers? What evidence (aside from forum comments about "normal business practice") do we have for a Board of Directors existing?

cthia wrote:You are mistaken. We have seen a BoD. I don't have searchable text at hand, so I can't. But I think it was in one of the Shadow books. The BoD is who gave the go ahead to allow the clones. And since that decision had to be passed along to the BoD, then it seems to imply the hierarchy.

It was probably something along the lines of "Ok, but they get no stock options." Because that could change the balance of power. Or they had limited stock options.

Stock options = controlling interest.

Consider the entire discussion in chapter 10 of Storm from the Shadows, particularly the following quote:
Albrecht nodded slowly. Renzo Kyprianou was in charge of bio-weapons research and development and a member of the Mesan Strategy Council. At the moment, however, not even the Strategy Council knew everything the Alignment was up to.
Not surprisingly, I suppose, he mused, given that the Alignment's always been so much of a . . . family business.
His lips twitched in an almost-smile at the thought, and he wondered how many members of the Strategy Council had figured out just how close he truly was to his "sons."
What would stock options even mean in the Mesan Alignment? It is a terrorist organization, not a money making business.

Even terrorists need money to operate, and since terrorists do not operate above board for obvious reasons, they tend to fund themselves through criminal enterprises. Drugs, illegal weapons, prostitution, etc. Sound familiar? Albrecht had to get funding for his centuries long endeavor from somewhere. To do so, you recruit people into the fold and sell stock.

Even family businesses don't have money growing on trees. You try and keep control of the business, but, well, the best laid plans of mice and men.

I am not saying my slant on it is written in stone, or sand. But the entire operation has a lot of financing coming from somewhere. The hierarchy is something the author has to enlighten us about.

At any rate, many businesses have BoDs. It is still the family's business, but there are shareholders. One wrong move and you are ousted from your own company. Many shareholders have a stake in your family business. And they have a right to ensure you don't run it, and their investment, into the ground.

See: 10 entrepreneurs who were forced out of their own companies.

Note Steve Jobs.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Pawn - Q7 ... Checkmate?
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:14 pm

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cthia wrote:Hmm, the entire forum came to the conclusion that the hierarchy is either ...


1. BoD
2. LRPB
3. Detweilers

Where the absolute value of 1 and 2 are unknowns. The Detweilers may have a seat on the Board of Directors as all founders of a "business" usually do. But the BoD usually has the most shares, collectively, in the "business" and makes all of the major decisions for the shareholders. If the entire mess flows with the traditional "business" plan.


We now know that there's such a thing as "Detweiler Zone" inside the Onion, so I call that into question. I'd put the Detweilers above the board. Before Benjamin through Gervais, Albrecht was simply the chairman of said board, as would have been some or most of his antecedents. Whether the other members of said board had enough clout to make decisions contrary to the current Detweiler's views is unknown... being rational to the extreme, I guess that there were conditions under which the Detweiler in charge backed down from a position after having it be explained to him.

But now? The Board approved the cloning of Albrecht into B though G and then gave them extreme positions of power in the MAlign structure, from intelligence and counter-intelligence through military build up. There's no way these seven (before Albrecht died) now six didn't form a cabal of their own. Where resources may need to be approvisioned from the larger Alignment structure, they will go through the board to get approvals, but otherwise it seems to me that they simply do as they wish.

And that's assuming those six simply aren't 75% of the BoD anyway.

But, yes, there could be some espionage within the business. I always maintained that the one single thing that may save the GA's bacon against this enemy is a defector from inside the Onion.


Like McBryde? Or McBryde?
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Re: Pawn - Q7 ... Checkmate?
Post by tlb   » Sat Feb 19, 2022 6:46 pm

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cthia wrote:Even terrorists need money to operate, and since terrorists do not operate above board for obvious reasons, they tend to fund themselves through criminal enterprises. Drugs, illegal weapons, prostitution, etc. Sound familiar? Albrecht had to get funding for his centuries long endeavor from somewhere. To do so, you recruit people into the fold and sell stock.

Even family businesses don't have money growing on trees. You try and keep control of the business, but, well, the best laid plans of mice and men.

I am not saying my slant on it is written in stone, or sand. But the entire operation has a lot of financing coming from somewhere. The hierarchy is something the author has to enlighten us about.

Some modern terrorists do fund raising on the internet, so criminal endeavors are not always needed. Anyway, what terrorist organization sells stock? In particular the Mesan Alignment could own stock in all the companies that operate on Mesa; such as Manpower Inc, Technodyne and the Jessyk Combine. It just needs to funnel it through shadow companies. Yes, you need people for that; but not shareholders, just crooked lawyers and accountants that are part way into the Onion.

Did you read all that they (just Albrecht Detweiler and two of his sons, Daniel and Collin) were discussing without a mention of running it past a board: assassinating Manticore's ambassador, poisoning the Torch royal court, Oyster Bay and perhaps eliminating Crandall and Filareta. In fact, Albrecht was amused by how little the Strategy Council knew about all this.
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Re: Pawn - Q7 ... Checkmate?
Post by cthia   » Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:13 pm

cthia
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tlb wrote:
cthia wrote:Even terrorists need money to operate, and since terrorists do not operate above board for obvious reasons, they tend to fund themselves through criminal enterprises. Drugs, illegal weapons, prostitution, etc. Sound familiar? Albrecht had to get funding for his centuries long endeavor from somewhere. To do so, you recruit people into the fold and sell stock.

Even family businesses don't have money growing on trees. You try and keep control of the business, but, well, the best laid plans of mice and men.

I am not saying my slant on it is written in stone, or sand. But the entire operation has a lot of financing coming from somewhere. The hierarchy is something the author has to enlighten us about.

Some modern terrorists do fund raising on the internet, so criminal endeavors are not always needed. Anyway, what terrorist organization sells stock? In particular the Mesan Alignment could own stock in all the companies that operate on Mesa; such as Manpower Inc, Technodyne and the Jessyk Combine. It just needs to funnel it through shadow companies. Yes, you need people for that; but not shareholders, just crooked lawyers and accountants that are part way into the Onion.

Did you read all that they (just Albrecht Detweiler and two of his sons, Daniel and Collin) were discussing without a mention of running it past a board: assassinating Manticore's ambassador, poisoning the Torch royal court, Oyster Bay and perhaps eliminating Crandall and Filareta. In fact, Albrecht was amused by how little the Strategy Council knew about all this.

If you are a terrorist, by definition you are a criminal enterprise.

Do past Presidents count? Strike that polical statement please. It is entirely out of order. LOL

You answered your own question. The MA undoubtedly does own stock in many companies on Mesa, and probably across the Galaxy. Stock is a powerful commodity. The MA undoubtedly exchanges these very same stock for favors throughout the Galaxy. Then reacquire them in an unfriendly take over and who knows what other deceitful business practices. I will go even further and suggest that the MA are responsible for the founding and success of many of these companies. They operate in the background. Shadow companies. To their chagrin, the MA are undoubtedly indirectly responsible for enabling Mesa and their lucrative business of sex slaves.


At any rate, you don't remember this stink?

Terrorist organizations begin small, funding their businesses through criminal enterprises, laundering the money as they go. The best way to launder money is to fund legitimate companies after you grow. Legitimate companies sell stock. Etc., etc., etc. An hour or so on the internet will surely enlighten you.

Yes, they were amused that they were getting away with crossing certain lines. Which inplies that they have others to answer to. It happens all of the time. BoDs are oftentimes lied to and misled. I would imagine it is easy to do so in the vastness of the Galaxy operating below board anyway. And in the case of the MA, the Detweilers likely have a lot of latitude. They are probably trusted not to shoot themselves in the foot. But that does not mean that they operate in a vacuum, or that they are at the very top of the food chain.

People who own companies have a vision and a special talent, but oftentimes they don't have management, banking, or other skills. That is where other parties come in. In the beginning, Leonard most assuredly needed help. He was too busy splicing genes to run the company and formulate strategy. Especially being blinded by the need for vengeance.

.

Oops, caught editing and splicing genes.

.
Last edited by cthia on Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:49 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Pawn - Q7 ... Checkmate?
Post by tlb   » Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:30 pm

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cthia wrote:You answered your own question. The MA undoubtedly does own stock in many companies on Mesa, and probably across the Galaxy. Stock is a powerful commodity. The MA undoubtedly exchanges these very same stock for favors throughout the Galaxy. Then reacquire them in an unfriendly take over and who knows what other deceitful business practices.

No, I did not answer my own question. You seemed to be saying that the Mesan Alignment would have shareholders in itself (you know, people to vote for a Board of Directors) and I was questioning that statement.

But thank you for pointing out that the internet can enlighten me. That may come in handy.

PS: Being amused does not imply they have someone to whom they have to answer.
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Re: Pawn - Q7 ... Checkmate?
Post by cthia   » Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:42 pm

cthia
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tlb wrote:
cthia wrote:You answered your own question. The MA undoubtedly does own stock in many companies on Mesa, and probably across the Galaxy. Stock is a powerful commodity. The MA undoubtedly exchanges these very same stock for favors throughout the Galaxy. Then reacquire them in an unfriendly take over and who knows what other deceitful business practices.

No, I did not answer my own question. You seemed to be saying that the Mesan Alignment would have shareholders in itself (you know, people to vote for a Board of Directors) and I was questioning that statement.

But thank you for pointing out that the internet can enlighten me. That may come in handy.

PS: Being amused does not imply they have someone to whom they have to answer.

All companies have shareholders unless you have enormous pockets. Even then you still want shareholders because even though shareholders share the profit, they also share the risk. You don't want to lose a billion dollars of your own capital.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Pawn - Q7 ... Checkmate?
Post by tlb   » Sat Feb 19, 2022 10:05 pm

tlb
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cthia wrote:All companies have shareholders unless you have enormous pockets. Even then you still want shareholders because even though shareholders share the profit, they also share the risk. You don't want to lose a billion dollars of your own capital.

So you think the Mesan Alignment (a terrorist organization) will have shareholders to share the risk! How does that work?

Let's assume that at one point, long long ago, the Mesan Alignment had shareholders. Why wouldn't everyone (except the Detweilers) exchange those shares for ones in real businesses? You know, so they could get dividends and buy or sell those shares openly?
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