Pawn - Q7 ... Checkmate?

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:The Sharks were a rushed testbed. Not a dedicated warship. They were never meant to be put into service. Evenso, can we expect a DN or BB to be as destructive as a Fort? Ehm, an invisible Fort.

An invisible fort is one that does not have a bubble wall in place; what TV Tropes would call a "glass cannon". It can make a strong first impression, but will not survive.

Did you hack RFC's minicomp? Share the schematics! I doubt they are w/o defenses. Well, other than complete and utter stealth that will allow the crew to eat your birthday cake right in front of you w/o you knowing it. Besides, one cannot break a glass that one cannot find.

And... even if the LD doesn't survive, the cost of one LD to eliminate one system from the board, or three LDs to eliminate an entire system from the board is worth it. Don't you think?

But, the MA wants to control the Galaxy, not destroy it. A few demonstration strikes of unprecedented technology that take out entire systems - instead of just cities, like Nagasaki and Hiroshima - softens up the board. Then they launch the Queen's Gambit so they won't have to kill the Manticore.

cthia wrote:But, the MA wants to control the Galaxy, not destroy it. A few demonstration strikes of unprecedented technology that take out entire systems - instead of just cities, like Nagasaki and Hiroshima - softens up the board. Then they launch the Queen's Gambit so they won't have to kill the Manticore.

I will happily wait for RFC to write your scenario, but I will not be holding my breath.

Folks, you are all deeply immersed in the Honorverse, so thinking logically in there.
Sorry to pop your bubbles, but it is up to RFC, who is 69, has had a few health scares (long may he live), and is juggling several large literary series. He may well elect to wrap things up in one or two books, and go sit in the sun for a well earned rest.
I certainly hope not, but it is his universe.

Daryl wrote:Folks, you are all deeply immersed in the Honorverse, so thinking logically in there.
Sorry to pop your bubbles, but it is up to RFC, who is 69, has had a few health scares (long may he live), and is juggling several large literary series. He may well elect to wrap things up in one or two books, and go sit in the sun for a well earned rest.
I certainly hope not, but it is his universe.

As a person more than several years older than RFC (I soon will be able to go through airport security without having to take off my shoes), I am well aware of the shadow of mortality. Frankly I do not expect RFC in his novels to ever address the death and destruction that Cthia paints. We have had a close up look at the destruction of Beowulf's orbitals and of Oyster Bay and there was the unseen destruction of EE violations during Buccaneer; but normally it is during space battles that the most deaths occur.

To think that the Malign would rain KEWs on a world or three and then kidnap the Empress in order to demand a peace treaty is a serious failure of imagination, when at that point of worldly destruction they could demand total surrender. Because RFC will not write such surrender demands (if he were to do so, I would stop reading in disgust), it follows that the Malign will not be able to reach that point of destructiveness.

tlb wrote:

Daryl wrote:Folks, you are all deeply immersed in the Honorverse, so thinking logically in there.
Sorry to pop your bubbles, but it is up to RFC, who is 69, has had a few health scares (long may he live), and is juggling several large literary series. He may well elect to wrap things up in one or two books, and go sit in the sun for a well earned rest.
I certainly hope not, but it is his universe.

As a person more than several years older than RFC (I soon will be able to go through airport security without having to take off my shoes), I am well aware of the shadow of mortality. Frankly I do not expect RFC in his novels to ever address the death and destruction that Cthia paints. We have had a close up look at the destruction of Beowulf's orbitals and of Oyster Bay and there was the unseen destruction of EE violations during Buccaneer; but normally it is during space battles that the most deaths occur.

To think that the Malign would rain KEWs on a world or three and then kidnap the Empress in order to demand a peace treaty is a serious failure of imagination, when at that point of worldly destruction they could demand total surrender. Because RFC will not write such surrender demands (if he were to do so, I would stop reading in disgust), it follows that the Malign will not be able to reach that point of destructiveness.

I have got a serious failure of imagination? Well isn't that the pot calling the kettle black.

Daryl, I would be be as happy as a pig in slop if RFC wrapped up the HV with just one more book. How many chapters are in TEiF? Has anyone counted them? Yet, only the final chapter had a battle scene. And I loved the book!

Can you imagine a battle scene in nearly every chapter? Even if only a very short, but important battle. RFC can have another 700 page book and he can throw the kitchen sink at us as far as battle scenes go. Can you imagine a book packed as densely with action! And make it even more dramatic by skipping ahead 3 to 6 months in-between battles. The Galaxy could be ravished over the course of a year, or more. With battles on the scale of WWII in the Pacific. One book! Is enough to show all of the death and destruction as he wants, utilizing a timeline that sprints. The author can exhaust us with battle after battle putting paid to the HV. He can pour his very best into it.

I agree, something is very wrong with my imagination. It isn't broken like what seems to be the norm.

tlb wrote:To think that the Malign would rain KEWs on a world or three and then kidnap the Empress in order to demand a peace treaty is a serious failure of imagination, when at that point of worldly destruction they could demand total surrender.

cthia wrote:I have got a serious failure of imagination? Well isn't that the pot calling the kettle black.

Daryl, I would be be as happy as a pig in slop if RFC wrapped up the HV with just one more book. How many chapters are in TEiF? Has anyone counted them? Yet, only the final chapter had a battle scene. And I loved the book!
--skip --
I agree, something is very wrong with my imagination. It isn't broken like what seems to be the norm.

You certainly have an extremely vivid imagination in general and I look dull in comparison. I only pointed to one specific instance as a failure: in this thread you have the Malign raining galaxy wide destruction. In order to issue a demand for total surrender? No, instead it is in order to capture the Empress and then demand a ceasefire and a peace treaty.

What a letdown! That is the exact point which I call a failure of imagination; because you are so wrapped up in your chess analogy, you stop far short of what the Malign superiority would enable in your scenario.

My imagination, such as is, runs more to wondering where RFC is going with his story. There have been threads in the past declaring that the Honorverse should be filled with blasted worlds; yet RFC has refused to write anything like that. Is it possible that he does not want to do so?

tlb wrote:To think that the Malign would rain KEWs on a world or three and then kidnap the Empress in order to demand a peace treaty is a serious failure of imagination, when at that point of worldly destruction they could demand total surrender. Because RFC will not write such surrender demands (if he were to do so, I would stop reading in disgust), it follows that the Malign will not be able to reach that point of destructiveness.

I think the MAlign would be reluctant to rain KEWs on a world, anyway. Darius has no defense against RKEWs. Any armed ship can kill a world (c-frac strike, the missiles come in ballistic kamikazes--don't use the warheads. The defenders will have very little if any warning and every round that gets through is a substantial fraction of the energy of the KT impactor.)

Loren Pechtel wrote:

tlb wrote:To think that the Malign would rain KEWs on a world or three and then kidnap the Empress in order to demand a peace treaty is a serious failure of imagination, when at that point of worldly destruction they could demand total surrender. Because RFC will not write such surrender demands (if he were to do so, I would stop reading in disgust), it follows that the Malign will not be able to reach that point of destructiveness.

I think the MAlign would be reluctant to rain KEWs on a world, anyway. Darius has no defense against RKEWs. Any armed ship can kill a world (c-frac strike, the missiles come in ballistic kamikazes--don't use the warheads. The defenders will have very little if any warning and every round that gets through is a substantial fraction of the energy of the KT impactor.)

Like, OMG man. I sure wish people would stop saying what the author won't do. Say what you think he won't do. At any rate, I have heard it all before... in spades. Now where did I hear it before. Hmm, let's see.

Oh yeah! When I said the SL will simply start KEWING planets. "Are you nuts?" Many people asked. Duckk said it would never happen and asked me if I thought the SL were idiots.

But then, we all know the story. Yet, it couldn't possibly have happened because the mighty SL were the people who produced and were upholding the Edict!

And the MAlign definitely has more moral fiber than the SL. Definitely!

The good news, tlb, is that you can borrow some crow from Duckk when the time comes. He should have a lot left over in his freezer.

cthia wrote:I sure wish people would stop saying what the author won't do. Say what you think he won't do.

There is no real difference between the two in reality. Since we cannot read his mind, all such statements in this forum are statements of opinion.

However there is a big difference between what has been written in the books so far and what you suggested in this thread:

Agreed, but kewing a planet into submission, or back to the Ice Age - which is simply a cataclysmic event of Refugian proportions - isn't exactly the same thing as planet busting.

RFC has not written that men have done anything close to what happened to Calvin's Hope. We know that the SLN committed what would be an EE violation, but we do not know how big the event was.

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:I sure wish people would stop saying what the author won't do. Say what you think he won't do.

snip

However there is a big difference between what has been written in the books so far and what you suggested in this thread:

Agreed, but kewing a planet into submission, or back to the Ice Age - which is simply a cataclysmic event of Refugian proportions - isn't exactly the same thing as planet busting.

RFC has not written that men have done anything close to what happened to Calvin's Hope. We know that the SLN committed what would be an EE violation, but we do not know how big the event was.

Forest and trees! Forest and trees!

There was a bigger difference than that when I first called in KEW strikes from the SL. At least now the genie has already been let out of the lamp. In many ways, but mostly psychologically, it is a smaller jump from what the SL managed to a KEW of Refugian proportions. The genie is out, and she is cavorting with the Mesan Alignment, who has even less morals, scruples and values than the Mandarins. Wait, does the Mesan Alignment even have any morals at all? What about scruples? Values? Any of the above that aren't malignant? Let me give you a hint of what can be found inside the MA.

M E S A N A L I G N M E N T