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Scenes we haven't read yet from UC

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Scenes we haven't read yet from UC
Post by lyonheart   » Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:32 am

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Howdy to all and everybody!

I regret not participating for years here, but my previous attempts to post never worked, and I had other priorities.

Since RFC understandably works on parts of stories separately rather than everything sequentially in order, such as Abigail's Saltash Space Station operation without marines was hinted at so many years ago in RFC's first posts about the Roland DD, which I have experienced in my own attempts at writing, I can't help wondering if there are scenes he's already written that we'll read in latter books as they are recalled by the various characters as RFC needs in his marvelous storytelling.

The first that comes to mind is the dinner after the surrender ceremony that Honor invites Kingsford to, because she and Nimitz read his honesty and integrity regarding what he tells her and Hamish etc of his experience with the MAlign agents dropping dead. I expect he invited Al-Fanudi being the expert on Manticore aboard his shuttle while Captain Teague began investigating ONI after its CO, Cheng-mu died with the rest.

I think Honor would play the snippet of Filareta for him, now that he has some personal experience to accept it.

Then there's the things Honor (and the GA) didn't include in the terms of surrender, such as rebuilding the Buccaneer victims' star systems, or closing E&I as the new Solarian League doesn't need it to lie for OFS etc anymore, or sealing OFS's records to begin learning the details of all its victims, to prevent the MA and all the transtellars from hiding or destroying the evidence of their crimes via computer worms, bombs, etc.

I can imagine Kingsford making it a point to Honor that the SL will repair the damage to the seven victims as the SL's first charge. I imagine Winston telling the newsies and the system at large upon his return that everything E&I said about Manticore for the past two years were lies and people needed to start rethinking what they thought they knew, although I suspect from what I understand of TeiF it didn't go down all that well.

Getting back to the dinner, I could see Honor's staff quietly explaining to the various SLN guests how lucky they are that Hamish is still alive, what Honor was like until he arrived.

Among other things I expect it to end with an invitation to Kingsford and his staff to visit Manticore and Whitehaven in particular, by both Honor and Hamish, whenever he/they manages to find the time given everything on their plates now.

I was expecting some scenes of the information war, as the MA spread its side of the conflict using hundreds if not thousands of DB's or couriers as quasi newsies, broadcasting their news briefs as they descended into normal space just outside the H-L as they pass by before returning to hyper on their way to the next system, how Beowulf agents among others might download such reports in various ways to keep them on the system nets so the government can't suppress them. Arguably the information war, changing the minds of the SL citizens is as important as the battles, but this might deserve a separate topic.

That's all for now, and best wishes to all!

Lyonheart

Any post post from RFC is great!
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: Scenes we haven't read yet from UC and other books
Post by lyonheart   » Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:35 am

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Hi again,

I'm very surprised other people haven't wondered how various people would react to the end of the war.

Among other things, how do the newsies, now that their bread and butter E&I is dead and gone or soon will be survive?

Enquiring minds want to know. ;)

As I posited before I expected Kingsford to seal both OFS and E&I before he left to sign the surrender. Were there any honest newsies he could have taken with him?
How many did he take for such a historic event?

Granted its all very embarrassing for the SL, but not having vid by nominally unbiased observers would have seemed only proper.
What did they think of all they saw especially HA-H?

Granted there are still plenty of transtellars who need flacks, but their new biases will become known if not obvious very soon, and given the financial losses they're suffering and will suffer for some time, how will their house parasites react then to being fired again by some?.

I imagine Kingsford pronouncing everything E&I said about Manticore for the past two plus years to be outright lies, wouldn't help their reputations. How many outraged at all the corruption that lost the war began real investigations and sought the truth? Of course there will be some seeking GA cash, if it were to be offered. A woman in the street POV might have been interesting.

I read TEIF on Saturday and enjoyed it very much especially some of the plot twists. I expected after SoV that O'Hanrahan would have sought an interview with Mike, and been discovered as a MAlign asset by the treecats and either died or questioned etc. This and other twists are much more interesting.

After the newsies, what does the average SLN spacer think of the war's end and the SL's surrender?
Relief at surviving and humiliation for the surrender but what other flavors and perspectives?

Besides the Terran woman in the street, what about everyone in the 600+ protectorates (well over a trillion people) discovering OFS is dead or soon will be and the SL is leaving within a month or just days so the transtellar control is toast?

Will we see a personal reaction from the transtellars?
Especially Heinrich Kalokainos's?
Does Volkart take over, or do we wait for Damien to take his revenge?

Is the governor of Saltash still there or even alive?

After Terekhov left Mobius, I would have had some of the DD's left behind scout the nearby systems for Frontier Fleet as well as other possible rebellions.

What is Kolokoltsov's reaction to learning his fellow Mandarins were either MAlign agents or in their pay?
We never read the thoughts of any other mandarin except him, and RFC may be setting us up for another change of heart like O'Hanrahan. Certainly we've learned more about him than most characters.
Who knows?

How do the people of the TQ, perhaps even Nordbrandt think of this shocking victory?
Is it time to call it quits?

As an aside, after the Battle of Spindle, even though the TQ didn't buy the captured SD's into the TQG, would Krietzmann have paid the RMN crews the bounty as if they had as a thank you for defeating Crandall, with Alquezar's approval and Medusa's acquiescence?

I think the 48 SD's and 69 FF warships total very near 350 MT, so 3% at 5000 M$/ton would mean every crewman might become a millionaire or close to it. The ~$52.5B wouldn't be much of the interest of quadrant's share of the junction fees over the past couple of years; at M$ 10 M minimum ($2/ton for a small 5 MT freighter) several hundred in 24 hours both ways could have reached around M$4 trillion accumulating at several billion a day., so the M$52.5B equals only 1.2%, much less than the likely interest rate. I suspect Manticore and Baroness Medusa take the long view and are wise enough not to build lots of infrastructure etc that the quadrant can't support by itself and is holding most of fees until the quadrant can make full use of it rather than corrupting everything by misuse too quickly.

How about the people of the annexed Silesian systems, do you think more reconciliation and acceptance of their new rulers?

How do the Andermanni feel about the status of the SEoM?

What do the SLN PW's on Spindle think of this unimaginable outcome, especially the admiral in command, who was being so difficult because she was sure the SL would ultimately win?
Will the flag bridge survivors tell what happened to Crandall?

What do Filareta's survivors on Manticore think of the world turned upside down?
Remember the music the British played at Yorktown?
What do they think of Manticore, once they reconsider things?

My father was teaching at Fort Sill at the end of WW2, and the heretofore arrogant Afrika Korps veterans were sure the Americans were lying when they said the war was over until the first ones sent back wrote letters telling them how bad things were in Germany and to do all they could to stay in the US. One result was that the German waiters in the officers club became the best ever in dad's 30.5 year career despite the language barrier, by numbering all the items on the menu, plates were quickly delivered like magic.

How many of the PW's were from the victims of Buccaneer?
What do they think of the SL now?
Were any crewmen pulled from the SLN TF's that destroyed their home system's industry?
How do they feel?

What do the people in the SL's shells think of the whole war and its outcome given they already resented the Mandarins policies favoring the old league at their expense?

How many intend to quit the SL once they've made sure the unrestricted bureaucratic monster is forever dead?
(or at least for a few more centuries)

What do the people beyond the protectorates, out on the fringe think about the war, the SL, the GA, and the reports of the MAlign and how will they react to the galaxy turned upside down and inside out?

How about scenes from the RMN ships enforcing the SL/OFS withdrawal, as well as frustrating any local conquistadors or filibusters?

Given the ship production rates cited in HoS, and the RHB's being almost ten times that, the GA should have plenty of TG's to watch and encourage the SLN to leave the former protectorates quickly.

There are lots of potential fascinating scenes we haven't read yet, what are some of your favorite scenes to be?

Best wishes to all


[quote="lyonheart"]Howdy to all and everybody!

I regret not participating for years here, but my previous attempts to post never worked, and I had other priorities.

Since RFC understandably works on parts of stories separately rather than everything sequentially in order, such as Abigail's Saltash Space Station operation without marines was hinted at so many years ago in RFC's first posts about the Roland DD, which I have experienced in my own attempts at writing, I can't help wondering if there are scenes he's already written that we'll read in latter books as they are recalled by the various characters as RFC needs in his marvelous storytelling.

The first that comes to mind is the dinner after the surrender ceremony that Honor invites Kingsford to, because she and Nimitz read his honesty and integrity regarding what he tells her and Hamish etc of his experience with the MAlign agents dropping dead. I expect he invited Al-Fanudi being the expert on Manticore aboard his shuttle while Captain Teague began investigating ONI after its CO, Cheng-mu died with the rest.

I think Honor would play the snippet of Filareta for him, now that he has some personal experience to accept it.

Then there's the things Honor (and the GA) didn't include in the terms of surrender, such as rebuilding the Buccaneer victims' star systems, or closing E&I as the new Solarian League doesn't need it to lie for OFS etc anymore, or sealing OFS's records to begin learning the details of all its victims, to prevent the MA and all the transtellars from hiding or destroying the evidence of their crimes via computer worms, bombs, etc.

I can imagine Kingsford making it a point to Honor that the SL will repair the damage to the seven victims as the SL's first charge. I imagine Winston telling the newsies and the system at large upon his return that everything E&I said about Manticore for the past two years were lies and people needed to start rethinking what they thought they knew, although I suspect from what I understand of TeiF it didn't go down all that well.

Getting back to the dinner, I could see Honor's staff quietly explaining to the various SLN guests how lucky they are that Hamish is still alive, what Honor was like until he arrived.

Among other things I expect it to end with an invitation to Kingsford and his staff to visit Manticore and Whitehaven in particular, by both Honor and Hamish, whenever he/they manages to find the time given everything on their plates now.

I was expecting some scenes of the information war, as the MA spread its side of the conflict using hundreds if not thousands of DB's or couriers as quasi newsies, broadcasting their news briefs as they descended into normal space just outside the H-L as they pass by before returning to hyper on their way to the next system, how Beowulf agents among others might download such reports in various ways to keep them on the system nets so the government can't suppress them. Arguably the information war, changing the minds of the SL citizens is as important as the battles, but this might deserve a separate topic.

That's all for now, and best wishes to all!

Lyonheart

Any post post from RFC is great![/quote]
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Re: Scenes we haven't read yet from UC and other books
Post by Relax   » Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:27 pm

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lyonheart wrote:Hi again,

I'm very surprised other people haven't wondered how various people would react to the end of the war.

Among other things, how do the newsies, now that their bread and butter E&I is dead and gone or soon will be survive?

Enquiring minds want to know. ;)

Snakes slither, they will be fine :shock: :? :twisted:
_________
Tally Ho!
Relax
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Re: Scenes we haven't read yet from UC
Post by cthia   » Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:05 pm

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Well, I think the author is guilty of more than a bit of that in a way, in several of the last previous books when he reproduced scenes but from different perspectives.

But more to your point, I am hoping for scenes where we get the POV of the Mandarins, post arrest. Keep in mind I haven't completed this latest masterpiece.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Scenes we haven't read yet from UC and other books
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:21 pm

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lyonheart wrote:As I posited before I expected Kingsford to seal both OFS and E&I before he left to sign the surrender. Were there any honest newsies he could have taken with him?
How many did he take for such a historic event?


Some of this is recounted in TEiF by the participants and others with direct knowledge.

I imagine Kingsford pronouncing everything E&I said about Manticore for the past two plus years to be outright lies, wouldn't help their reputations. How many outraged at all the corruption that lost the war began real investigations and sought the truth? Of course there will be some seeking GA cash, if it were to be offered. A woman in the street POV might have been interesting.


Doesn't seem to be his style. He seems to be cleaning house without making a spectacle out of this. Again, details in TEiF, but he and Simeon do not seems to attract attention to themselves.

Besides, pointing the finger puts people in the defensive, which could make them turn to revanchism to Manticore & the GA, something that Kingsford knows he cannot afford for the next two decades.

TEiF doesn't go into all the details of what he has to do either, though. Some of what you're wondering may come later.

After the newsies, what does the average SLN spacer think of the war's end and the SL's surrender?
Relief at surviving and humiliation for the surrender but what other flavors and perspectives?


I'm unsure. Those reading O'Hanrahan probably understand it was the Mandarins' arrogance and the ineptitude of the Battle Fleet to be the cause. But the average solarian? Especially the average citizen of the Sol system? It's not clear at all. The blurb for TEiF made it sound like this could become a problem, but the book itself did not deal with it as much as I thought it would. Which doesn't mean it isn't happening, it might have just not been part of this book.

Besides the Terran woman in the street, what about everyone in the 600+ protectorates (well over a trillion people) discovering OFS is dead or soon will be and the SL is leaving within a month or just days so the transtellar control is toast?

Will we see a personal reaction from the transtellars?
Especially Heinrich Kalokainos's?
Does Volkart take over, or do we wait for Damien to take his revenge?

Is the governor of Saltash still there or even alive?

After Terekhov left Mobius, I would have had some of the DD's left behind scout the nearby systems for Frontier Fleet as well as other possible rebellions.


A lot of this I expected to happen in the book after TEiF. I was expecting TEiF to end about three quarters of the way it actually does, with the next book being a Saganami Island-focused book with Henke & Tourville dealing with the occupation of Mesa from the military side, and expanding to see the protectorates, the rise of warlordism, and some more clues as to where the MAlign is hiding. We'd also get to see more of Roszak, who'd mostly appeared in Crown of Slaves books.

Now I simply don't know what to expect for the next book.

What is Kolokoltsov's reaction to learning his fellow Mandarins were either MAlign agents or in their pay?


He was in their pay too and none were direct agents. Rajampet was the closest, who had direct dealings with some shadowy figures, was the closest to an "agent" but even he had no idea who exactly they were. Manpower and from Mesa, sure. Alignment? No.

The other Mandarins were too visible to be agents. The MAlign was right in simply pulling their strings like puppets, but not have them as outright agents.

We never read the thoughts of any other mandarin except him, and RFC may be setting us up for another change of heart like O'Hanrahan. Certainly we've learned more about him than most characters.
Who knows?


We had PoV chapters from Agatá Wodolowska, didn't we? Quartermain too, IIRC.

How do the people of the TQ, perhaps even Nordbrandt think of this shocking victory?
Is it time to call it quits?


Victory over the Solarian League would be irrelevant to her. The regular citizens of the quadrant should be proud of their star nation, especially after news that their 2-million-man army successfully liberated the Madras Sector and occupied Mesa. The troublemakers like Norbrandt won't care. I don't think we'll ever see her again... she's become irrelevant for the story and also for the citizens of Split.

As an aside, after the Battle of Spindle, even though the TQ didn't buy the captured SD's into the TQG, would Krietzmann have paid the RMN crews the bounty as if they had as a thank you for defeating Crandall, with Alquezar's approval and Medusa's acquiescence?


SLN SDs are deathtraps. Friends don't let their friends ride on deathtraps. There's no reason for a Quadrant Guard when the RMN is there. Even if there were, they wouldn't be using SDs; they'd be going around in light cruisers and destroyers.

As for paying the crews... I don't know. We haven't heard about that in the Honorverse since before the first war with Haven started. Do crews get paid for enemy ships bought into service during a time of war?

How about the people of the annexed Silesian systems, do you think more reconciliation and acceptance of their new rulers?


That not told at all.

BTW, looks like the next Honorverse book is an Anthology. So we may hear more about the Silesia Quadrant and Sarnow's exploits there. And can we get more Charles?

How do the Andermanni feel about the status of the SEoM?


Judging from the personages that appear next to Honor in TEiF, they're in very good terms.

What do the SLN PW's on Spindle think of this unimaginable outcome, especially the admiral in command, who was being so difficult because she was sure the SL would ultimately win?
Will the flag bridge survivors tell what happened to Crandall?


If they'd known something, they'd have told already. No one who's survived must have seen anything of relevance.

What matters to them is that now the war is over, PoWs are returned. So they can go home... probably to a discharge from the SLN.

What do Filareta's survivors on Manticore think of the world turned upside down?


Same thing.

My father was teaching at Fort Sill at the end of WW2, and the heretofore arrogant Afrika Korps veterans were sure the Americans were lying when they said the war was over until the first ones sent back wrote letters telling them how bad things were in Germany and to do all they could to stay in the US. One result was that the German waiters in the officers club became the best ever in dad's 30.5 year career despite the language barrier, by numbering all the items on the menu, plates were quickly delivered like magic.


I was wondering how many would ask for asylum in Talbott or Manticore. But I think those will be a very small minority.

With the exception of Sol itself, the local system economies in the SL are intact. Slightly depressed due to Lacoön, but otherwise intact. The vast majority of BF personnel came from the Core too, so those wouldn't be affected by the bouts of warlordism in the Shell, Fringe or Verge. That's quite different than what happened to Germany after either world war, especially WWI. And even with WWII, the Marshall plan helped Germany and Europe get back to their feet in record time.

How many of the PW's were from the victims of Buccaneer?
What do they think of the SL now?
Were any crewmen pulled from the SLN TF's that destroyed their home system's industry?
How do they feel?


See above: BF personnel were mostly recruited from the Core systems, which were not attacked by Buccaneer. The only exception was Beowulf and I doubt there was more than a handful of Bewoulfers with either fleet. The Beowulfers had a perfectly good system defence navy at home to have a career on.

Hypatia was located in the Core but doesn't appear to be considered a Core system. They may have been present in the PoW camps too. My guess is that the internment directors quickly segregated them once the news of the attacks on their systems arrived.

What do the people in the SL's shells think of the whole war and its outcome given they already resented the Mandarins policies favoring the old league at their expense?


I was expecting to learn more on the next book, but I don't know if we will get that.

My guess is that the Shell was mostly indifferent. Their volume of traffic may have been low enough that Lacoön affected them less. They were already suffering at the Mandarins' policies, but the local governments were probably stable and modern enough not to let much of that through. Quite unlike OFS-administered Verge systems.

What they need to worry is if any breakaway warlord wants to conquer them. But they're still SL (unless they secede), so the FF can legally go there to protect them.

How many intend to quit the SL once they've made sure the unrestricted bureaucratic monster is forever dead?
(or at least for a few more centuries)


It looks like the SL is keeping maybe half of its membership. What we don't know is what the breakdown is on Core versus Shell.

What do the people beyond the protectorates, out on the fringe think about the war, the SL, the GA, and the reports of the MAlign and how will they react to the galaxy turned upside down and inside out?


I don't think most of them even felt the effects. The war didn't begin to affect them until Lacoön II, and then it ended shortly thereafter. The time lag for the effects to propagate means the war was probably over before anything happened.

What comes next is interesting: the OFS and FF withdrawal.

How about scenes from the RMN ships enforcing the SL/OFS withdrawal, as well as frustrating any local conquistadors or filibusters?

Given the ship production rates cited in HoS, and the RHB's being almost ten times that, the GA should have plenty of TG's to watch and encourage the SLN to leave the former protectorates quickly.


Next book...
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Re: Scenes we haven't read yet from UC and other books
Post by tlb   » Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:48 pm

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:SLN SDs are deathtraps. Friends don't let their friends ride on deathtraps. There's no reason for a Quadrant Guard when the RMN is there. Even if there were, they wouldn't be using SDs; they'd be going around in light cruisers and destroyers.

As for paying the crews... I don't know. We haven't heard about that in the Honorverse since before the first war with Haven started. Do crews get paid for enemy ships bought into service during a time of war?

The main reason that we have not heard of captured ships being bought into the navy in the later books is that the ships captured by the RMN were not worth the effort to make them conform to Manticore naval standards. But still there is prize money: Honor's fortune was started by the money paid for contraband discovered in OBS (do we know if that included the merchant ship she confiscated?). Then then head bounties for each pirate crewman killed or captured and prize money paid for ships or slaves recovered in operations against the pirates and slavers.

However on the question of money for warships see chapter 4 of Field of Dishonor:
"Dame Honor," he said patiently, "a dreadnought is valued at somewhere in the neighborhood of thirty-two billion dollars, and the prize court awards three percent of the value of a surrendered enemy ship to the task force which captured it, assuming the Navy buys the prize into service. Of that total, the flag captains of said task force split twelve percent among themselves, and there were only four flag captains in Hancock at the time Admiral Chin surrendered. The Admiralty survey judged two of her five surviving dreadnoughts too badly damaged for repair, but the Navy bought the other three in. Now, three percent of ninety-six billion dollars is two-point-eight-eight billion, and twelve percent of that is three hundred forty-five million, plus change. Which means, dear lady, that your share comes to a paltry eighty-six million four hundred thousand dollars—exclusive of the lighter vessels surrendered with them. Of course, they only added another six million to your total award, so I suppose we don't have to worry about them. Believe me, those figures are correct. In fact, if you look at page three, you'll see that the most junior enlisted person serving under you will receive almost fifty thousand dollars."

Although this does not discuss enlisted personnel, but they get a share also; just as they did with the contraband discovered at Basilisk.

It is stated elsewhere, that such money is tax-free by tradition.
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Re: Scenes we haven't read yet from UC and other books
Post by munroburton   » Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:08 am

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tlb wrote:
ThinksMarkedly wrote:SLN SDs are deathtraps. Friends don't let their friends ride on deathtraps. There's no reason for a Quadrant Guard when the RMN is there. Even if there were, they wouldn't be using SDs; they'd be going around in light cruisers and destroyers.

As for paying the crews... I don't know. We haven't heard about that in the Honorverse since before the first war with Haven started. Do crews get paid for enemy ships bought into service during a time of war?

The main reason that we have not heard of captured ships being bought into the navy in the later books is that the ships captured by the RMN were not worth the effort to make them conform to Manticore naval standards. But still there is prize money: Honor's fortune was started by the money paid for contraband discovered in OBS (do we know if that included the merchant ship she confiscated?). Then then head bounties for each pirate crewman killed or captured and prize money paid for ships or slaves recovered in operations against the pirates and slavers.

However on the question of money for warships see chapter 4 of Field of Dishonor:
"Dame Honor," he said patiently, "a dreadnought is valued at somewhere in the neighborhood of thirty-two billion dollars, and the prize court awards three percent of the value of a surrendered enemy ship to the task force which captured it, assuming the Navy buys the prize into service. Of that total, the flag captains of said task force split twelve percent among themselves, and there were only four flag captains in Hancock at the time Admiral Chin surrendered. The Admiralty survey judged two of her five surviving dreadnoughts too badly damaged for repair, but the Navy bought the other three in. Now, three percent of ninety-six billion dollars is two-point-eight-eight billion, and twelve percent of that is three hundred forty-five million, plus change. Which means, dear lady, that your share comes to a paltry eighty-six million four hundred thousand dollars—exclusive of the lighter vessels surrendered with them. Of course, they only added another six million to your total award, so I suppose we don't have to worry about them. Believe me, those figures are correct. In fact, if you look at page three, you'll see that the most junior enlisted person serving under you will receive almost fifty thousand dollars."

Although this does not discuss enlisted personnel, but they get a share also; just as they did with the contraband discovered at Basilisk.

It is stated elsewhere, that such money is tax-free by tradition.


Since that scene doesn't mention any scrap income from the 2 condemned dreadnoughts, this is speculative: The crews could have gotten their 3% of the scrap values of all those captured assets at Spindle(& 2nd Manticore), from whoever buys that much metal.

At $200 per ton, a scrapped dreadnought could be worth about 1.25 billion dollars rather than the 32 billion given in 1905 for a serviceable waller. As a result, Spindle's bounty may reach as much as sixty billion dollars - barely two-thirds that of Hancock despite sixteen times the captured tonnage.

The RMN taking all those grasers into service may bump that prize pot up a bit, or create a much smaller pot if the crews don't get prize money for scrap metal.
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Re: Scenes we haven't read yet from UC and other books
Post by lyonheart   » Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:47 am

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Thanks tlb for the quote!

I knew it was early in FoD, at the restaurant, but my copy wasn't immediately accessible.

Again, the TQ payment isn't after buying the ships but to thank the crews for saving the quadrant.

Perhaps to be more accurate, the 69 FF ships (16 BC's, 12 CA's, 23 CL's, and 18 DD's) were bought in since they are much closer to modern standards than BF, which especially out between the verge and the fringe beyond, are more than good enough. Granted that a hard pressed RMN would appreciate the extra coverage, but the SD's total mass means they are worth almost 14 times as much to Tenth Fleet.

The FF's are usefully employed by the TQG, and might have increased the TQ's locally owned hyper capable warships by 50-100%. including training crewmen of those TQ members who didn't have hyper capable warships before, to prepare them for the more advanced RMN ships after the war.

While what to do with the 48 SD's was a dead horse before before being sent to the breakers in UC, I still think they would have made dandy deterrent scarecrows for any local pirates etc while the RMN was preoccupied elsewhere with 3 in each system and very useful for training lots of marines and spacers the basics, besides the industrial support, until replaced by RMN SD's.

Is there textev for scrapped warships being worth only M$200/ton?

Best wishes,



tlb wrote:
ThinksMarkedly wrote:SLN SDs are deathtraps. Friends don't let their friends ride on deathtraps. There's no reason for a Quadrant Guard when the RMN is there. Even if there were, they wouldn't be using SDs; they'd be going around in light cruisers and destroyers.

As for paying the crews... I don't know. We haven't heard about that in the Honorverse since before the first war with Haven started. Do crews get paid for enemy ships bought into service during a time of war?

The main reason that we have not heard of captured ships being bought into the navy in the later books is that the ships captured by the RMN were not worth the effort to make them conform to Manticore naval standards. But still there is prize money: Honor's fortune was started by the money paid for contraband discovered in OBS (do we know if that included the merchant ship she confiscated?). Then then head bounties for each pirate crewman killed or captured and prize money paid for ships or slaves recovered in operations against the pirates and slavers.

However on the question of money for warships see chapter 4 of Field of Dishonor:
"Dame Honor," he said patiently, "a dreadnought is valued at somewhere in the neighborhood of thirty-two billion dollars, and the prize court awards three percent of the value of a surrendered enemy ship to the task force which captured it, assuming the Navy buys the prize into service. Of that total, the flag captains of said task force split twelve percent among themselves, and there were only four flag captains in Hancock at the time Admiral Chin surrendered. The Admiralty survey judged two of her five surviving dreadnoughts too badly damaged for repair, but the Navy bought the other three in. Now, three percent of ninety-six billion dollars is two-point-eight-eight billion, and twelve percent of that is three hundred forty-five million, plus change. Which means, dear lady, that your share comes to a paltry eighty-six million four hundred thousand dollars—exclusive of the lighter vessels surrendered with them. Of course, they only added another six million to your total award, so I suppose we don't have to worry about them. Believe me, those figures are correct. In fact, if you look at page three, you'll see that the most junior enlisted person serving under you will receive almost fifty thousand dollars."

Although this does not discuss enlisted personnel, but they get a share also; just as they did with the contraband discovered at Basilisk.

It is stated elsewhere, that such money is tax-free by tradition.
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: Scenes we haven't read yet from UC and other books
Post by munroburton   » Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:54 am

munroburton
Admiral

Posts: 2232
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:16 am
Location: Scotland

lyonheart wrote:Is there textev for scrapped warships being worth only M$200/ton?


Nope! It's based on the price of scrap steel here and now. Feel free to insert your own imaginary numbers for the imaginary result you wish to see. :D
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Re: Scenes we haven't read yet from UC and other books
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Fri Oct 29, 2021 12:30 pm

ThinksMarkedly
Admiral

Posts: 2468
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:39 am

lyonheart wrote:Again, the TQ payment isn't after buying the ships but to thank the crews for saving the quadrant.


That they should have.

Perhaps to be more accurate, the 69 FF ships (16 BC's, 12 CA's, 23 CL's, and 18 DD's) were bought in since they are much closer to modern standards than BF, which especially out between the verge and the fringe beyond, are more than good enough. Granted that a hard pressed RMN would appreciate the extra coverage, but the SD's total mass means they are worth almost 14 times as much to Tenth Fleet.

The FF's are usefully employed by the TQG, and might have increased the TQ's locally owned hyper capable warships by 50-100%. including training crewmen of those TQ members who didn't have hyper capable warships before, to prepare them for the more advanced RMN ships after the war.


I don't think they were. At this point in time, the RMN wasn't pressed for ships. Maybe later, after Oyster Bay, they may have decided that they were worth it, but I still doubt it. More likely, they could be sold to other Haven Sector powers who may want them.

Because though the FF ships were closer to 1905 RMN quality, they were a far cry from 1920 quality. The RMN still had lots of Chanson, Culverin and Javelins in reserve at this time. They would do far better to use their own ships where available, for which they had full history of how to use, knew all the gremlins of, and had sufficient spare parts for (and blueprints for). Not to mention the RMN did not seem to be short of Wolfhounds and Rolands either.

While what to do with the 48 SD's was a dead horse before before being sent to the breakers in UC, I still think they would have made dandy deterrent scarecrows for any local pirates etc [cut]


I think you said it right what just about the only use they could have: scarecrows. Park one of them in one system and power it up, and no pirate is going to stay around to check if it's real.

Though they may want to use Loreleis for that. Those are probably cheaper to run.
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