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SPOILERS: To End In Fire eARC discussion

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SPOILERS: To End In Fire eARC discussion
Post by turol   » Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:10 am

turol
Lieutenant (Junior Grade)

Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:54 pm

This is a thread for disussing To End In Fire eARC.
THERE ARE SPOILERS BELOW!
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The book wasn't bad but it felt... rushed. Galton came out of nowhere and given its status it should have at least been mentioned two books earlier. Also the hunt for them could easily have been extended into two or three books so we'd gotten a lot more superspy action.
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Re: SPOILERS: To End In Fire eARC discussion
Post by Torlek   » Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:08 pm

Torlek
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Location: Munich, Germany

Yeah, Galton was retconned in to have something to shoot at. Finding it looked too easy. I didn't love it.

Also, I did not like the O’Hanrahan plotline. She is fanatically loyal enough to accept having her leg shot off. She is somewhat okay with nuking incriminating evidence but not okay with terror bombing nukes. And her motivation is apparently better medical technology, which requires justifies and requires a conspiracy. I get a conspiracy for genetic super philosopher-kings but not for medical technology. Also the story they feed her about the two Engagement offshoots does not make sense. She was on Mesa when the nukes go off and they had enough intelligence to help her dodge those by controlling her hotel choice but did not do anything else because of decision paralysis. And buying that we are just the slightly ruthless offshoot of the Engagement all the really bad things are done by that other offshoot. That woman is supposed to be among the best investigative journalist anywhere and she swallowed that convoluted mess. I get motivated reasoning but this is stretching it.
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Re: SPOILERS: To End In Fire eARC discussion
Post by Robert_A_Woodward   » Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:32 am

Robert_A_Woodward
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I have not read the eARC, I have read the 1st half of the Webscription. When Galton was introduced in the March 1923 PD chapter, it was stated it will be, in case of emergency, sacrificed to hide Darius. The problem is that the version of Oyster Bay that Galton supposedly mounted is obviously inconsistent with Manticore knowledge of it, see chapter 30 in _Mission of Honor_. The Galton plan should have had highly stealthed drones with grasers instead of the MDMs with graser heads that were in it. Delivering the pods by freighters would work, but they had to leave hyperspace outside of the reach of Manticore sensor net. Which means that the freighters had to accelerate up to the 20% light speed (still outside the sensor net) and then go ballistic for months.

So either the Detweilers bungled again or there is an authorial continuity error (I have noticed 3 different people being in two different places simultaneously in the last 3 novels)
----------------------------
Beowulf was bad.
(first sentence of Chapter VI of _Space Viking_ by H. Beam Piper)
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Re: SPOILERS: To End In Fire eARC discussion
Post by Perseus   » Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:42 am

Perseus
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Posts: 2
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Robert_A_Woodward wrote:I have not read the eARC, I have read the 1st half of the Webscription. When Galton was introduced in the March 1923 PD chapter, it was stated it will be, in case of emergency, sacrificed to hide Darius. The problem is that the version of Oyster Bay that Galton supposedly mounted is obviously inconsistent with Manticore knowledge of it, see chapter 30 in _Mission of Honor_. The Galton plan should have had highly stealthed drones with grasers instead of the MDMs with graser heads that were in it. Delivering the pods by freighters would work, but they had to leave hyperspace outside of the reach of Manticore sensor net. Which means that the freighters had to accelerate up to the 20% light speed (still outside the sensor net) and then go ballistic for months.

So either the Detweilers bungled again or there is an authorial continuity error (I have noticed 3 different people being in two different places simultaneously in the last 3 novels)


I was thinking something similar, but with the spider drive, which the GA knows about (and is probably researching). If I were the GA, one of the first things I would do would be to grab as much R&D data as possible, so they'll notice the lack of spider drive pretty quick.
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Re: SPOILERS: To End In Fire eARC discussion
Post by cnrd22   » Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:41 am

cnrd22
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Posts: 124
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Overall I liked the book a lot - definitely more than the last 2 which both had their moments, but I thought overly long for the storyline, probably on par with Cauldron of Ghosts and A rising Thunder though the blurb is really weird as I haven't seen much about Solarian revanchism.

Galton was of course needed as it was clear from a while ago that the "Grand Alliance did it" doesn't hold, so a scapegoat had to be found as the series couldn't just end in one more volume after all. Its demise was clearly marked from its introduction, but I quite liked that it took one book only.

Also really liked both the "resistance" movement on Darius (again needed as Zach and Gail are marked to be the new heroes that bring Darius to light the way Jack did the Alignment, but they were quite boxed in by themselves) and O'Hanrahan fooling Honor, the treecats, and everyone else - after all once you are committed, you will clearly believe the best of your side, so the explanation with two Alignments - which obviously has tons of logical holes - was at least for now enough; will see what the future brings of course.

Hopefully, we won't have to wait three more years for the next one
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Re: SPOILERS: To End In Fire eARC discussion
Post by cthia   » Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:23 pm

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cnrd22 wrote:Overall I liked the book a lot - definitely more than the last 2 which both had their moments, but I thought overly long for the storyline, probably on par with Cauldron of Ghosts and A rising Thunder though the blurb is really weird as I haven't seen much about Solarian revanchism.

Galton was of course needed as it was clear from a while ago that the "Grand Alliance did it" doesn't hold, so a scapegoat had to be found as the series couldn't just end in one more volume after all. Its demise was clearly marked from its introduction, but I quite liked that it took one book only.

Also really liked both the "resistance" movement on Darius (again needed as Zach and Gail are marked to be the new heroes that bring Darius to light the way Jack did the Alignment, but they were quite boxed in by themselves) and O'Hanrahan fooling Honor, the treecats, and everyone else - after all once you are committed, you will clearly believe the best of your side, so the explanation with two Alignments - which obviously has tons of logical holes - was at least for now enough; will see what the future brings of course.

Hopefully, we won't have to wait three more years for the next one


Lurking and tiptoeing on cotton.

Don't know where that is headed, but I always maintained that a GA breakthrough would come from inside the MA. Perhaps someone named Crazy Ivan will deliver a Spider to the GA named Red October.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: SPOILERS: To End In Fire eARC discussion
Post by lfesdaille   » Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:57 pm

lfesdaille
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I’m guessing I’m not the only one that looking for the proverbial hidden shoe. At least the non of the major characters have sworn absolutes to the findings.
cthia wrote:
cnrd22 wrote:Overall I liked the book a lot - definitely more than the last 2 which both had their moments, but I thought overly long for the storyline, probably on par with Cauldron of Ghosts and A rising Thunder though the blurb is really weird as I haven't seen much about Solarian revanchism.

Galton was of course needed as it was clear from a while ago that the "Grand Alliance did it" doesn't hold, so a scapegoat had to be found as the series couldn't just end in one more volume after all. Its demise was clearly marked from its introduction, but I quite liked that it took one book only.

Also really liked both the "resistance" movement on Darius (again needed as Zach and Gail are marked to be the new heroes that bring Darius to light the way Jack did the Alignment, but they were quite boxed in by themselves) and O'Hanrahan fooling Honor, the treecats, and everyone else - after all once you are committed, you will clearly believe the best of your side, so the explanation with two Alignments - which obviously has tons of logical holes - was at least for now enough; will see what the future brings of course.

Hopefully, we won't have to wait three more years for the next one


Lurking and tiptoeing on cotton.

Don't know where that is headed, but I always maintained that a GA breakthrough would come from inside the MA. Perhaps someone named Crazy Ivan will deliver a Spider to the GA named Red October.
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Re: SPOILERS: To End In Fire eARC discussion
Post by Daryl   » Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:34 pm

Daryl
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Not having read it, but just these comments, I'm probably looking for trouble, but will point out that I have previously speculated along the lines of Asimov's Foundation with more hidden layers of the onion.
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Re: SPOILERS: To End In Fire eARC discussion
Post by Michael Everett   » Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:03 am

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While I'm waiting for the entire release, my paranoia has me suspecting that the final scene in the book will be a shadowy figure musing that the MAlign Gambit has failed and the figure must therefore concentrate on a different method of claiming total (covert) control of Humanity.
And then the literary camera pulls out to reveal the figure is sat in a fortress on the previously officially-undiscovered planet Boskone...
~~~~~~

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But I try nonetheless, And even do my own artwork.

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Re: SPOILERS: To End In Fire eARC discussion
Post by cthia   » Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:37 am

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 13790
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

turol wrote:This is a thread for disussing To End In Fire eARC.
THERE ARE SPOILERS BELOW!
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
The book wasn't bad but it felt... rushed. Galton came out of nowhere and given its status it should have at least been mentioned two books earlier. Also the hunt for them could easily have been extended into two or three books so we'd gotten a lot more superspy action.

I don't know what Galton is but I would expect there to be loads of delicious stuff revealed in this book that hasn't been mentioned yet. Remember, this is a super secret, paranoid entity that is extremely compartmentalized and operating on a need to know basis. People die from simply being asked questions, so we should expect there to be lots of stuff that surprises us. I had rather hoped it would all be wrapped up in this book so Honor can ride again. Superspys work fast don't they?

I was hoping to find hard numbers about ships and types, and mention of a totally new planet or planets (dunno if Galton is a planet or a system). At the very least I expect updated numbers on the total population of the MAlign, and a breakdown of what Line will be used as meat for the grinder. Will the LDs feature a crew of mostly Alphas, or will Alphas simply represent the officers. *

At any rate, we have speculated about new wormholes, and I certainly expect the whereabouts and ins-and-outs of that to be answered. And I expect the answer to be a totally new system. I was also expecting to find out that Daddy Detweiler isn't dead. He is simply holding out on a new planet in a new system. Later to be used for Houdini 2, when Darius is found and invaded. I was also expecting the location of Darius.

I haven't even read the freebie. Dunno if I will, but I glanced at it and saw Michelle Henke is indeed in it. Great!

*Late edit: I wonder whether the MA would use all Alphas to make up the crew of the LDs even though they are the most intelligent, because they are so valuable and in much shorter supply. But why man the crew with inferior lines? I thought the crew would be a mixture of Alpha and Beta lines. I checked in with my drunken informant and Wiki has mention of only one Beta? Lathorous? Where oh where have all of the Betas gone? Training on LDs in a different system?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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