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Do anti-genies have a point?

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Re: Do anti-genies have a point?
Post by cthia   » Tue May 18, 2021 4:02 am

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I imagine there are many different "types" of genies who are engineered for many different extremes which are encountered outside of Earth, that cover the spectrum of characteristics from detectable to nondetectable. Every genie does not look like carved granite. Honor doesn't. The Wintons don't either. Heck, IINM, Honor was once considered gangly and clumsy.

It is amusing that several of you so readily characterize the fear of anti-genies as racism. It just isn't so, or certainly isn't for everyone who is informed. There is a real danger.

Surely you don't characterize the present fear - right here on Earth - of humans who take steroids, as racist. It isn't racism, it is common sense and a real bona fide fear.

Athletes are getting their necks broken on the gridiron because the playing field is not level. You cannot leave the safety of nonmodified humans on the existence or lack thereof of morals, scruples, values, and awareness that may or may not exist in genies.

"Awareness" comes into play because there will be instances where genies may not even be aware when they pose an unnatural danger to nongenies. Or that a particular interaction or confrontation is totally unfair.

It was totally unfair that Burdette had to go up against Honor. And she had no sense of fairplay that she should level the playing field by removing Nimitz, or divulge her secret and let Burdette choose his poison. Anything less is uncivilized, manslaughter or murder. Not to mention that it was a disgrace against the teachings of any God. Certainly on Grayson.

What other secrets do genies throughout the Galaxy hide from nongenies, like ESP, mind reading, telekinesis, etc.

None of these talents would be fair in many settings, quite dangerous in most, and downright illegal in at least one instance. Like Honor using the one specific talent in her duel against Burdette. Even Eloise lightheartedly accused Honor of "cheating" in her diplomatic efforts. Honor's ability may exist naturally in other genies even without a 'Cat.

And why is the consensus that nongenies will always be the ones picking a fight. Are you all suggesting that genies are all kindly, cuddly teddy bears without screws loose? Like humans on steroids.

Laws may have to be rewritten to cover the status quo. One danger in playing God is - unlike God - gods don't have a "bird's-eye" view, and thus cannot see all of the implications of their tampering.

But to think genies have themselves under control is preposterous. Even Honor can be a nutcase.

I still think the MA can choose to fight fire with fire by divulging Honor's secret, possibly causing a Constitutional and religious crisis on Grayson. Plus the MA can air all of the Winton's secrets of how they downplay their genie status.

The MA can cause upheaval in the MBS by sowing seeds of doubt about Treecats controlling humans by mind control, and that they were simply fighting fire with fire by using nanite control. We as readers know better, but a galaxy of humans who are already testy about Treecats won't. Opening up about the details of Honor's encounter with Burdette will get the ball rolling if the MA so chooses to fight fire with fire.

I would imagine the danger represented by genies is why contact sports is nearly extinct throughout the HV.

And when the Galaxy absorbs the rest of the Frankensteins of the MA, things will get a lot worse.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Do anti-genies have a point?
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Tue May 18, 2021 5:24 pm

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cthia wrote:I imagine there are many different "types" of genies who are engineered for many different extremes which are encountered outside of Earth, that cover the spectrum of characteristics from detectable to nondetectable. Every genie does not look like carved granite. Honor doesn't. The Wintons don't either. Heck, IINM, Honor was once considered gangly and clumsy.


Indeed, though that was mostly a result of the delayed maturation caused by the third-gen prolong therapies she received.

It is amusing that several of you so readily characterize the fear of anti-genies as racism. It just isn't so, or certainly isn't for everyone who is informed. There is a real danger.

Surely you don't characterize the present fear - right here on Earth - of humans who take steroids, as racist. It isn't racism, it is common sense and a real bona fide fear.


I don't, but that leads me to the opposite conclusion. The average athlete, the average genie, and the average human are not that different. There's so much a spectrum in all of those that on average the comparison is a wash. So that's why there is no danger from genies any more than there is danger from athletes. The one big difference is that genetic manipulation is inheritable, whereas phenotypical modifications through exercise and diet aren't. On the other hand, if athletes are athletes because they are genetically predisposed to be good at sports, then athletes having children with other athletes could be seen as a form of eugenic selection. So, no, athletes and genies are not that different.

Which is why there shouldn't be discrimination. You're right, there's no reason to fear an athlete, whether they take steroids or not, dietary supplements or not. Like I said, there will be extremes, as someone who doesn't know how strong they are and cannot carefully measure their physical interactions with other people. And of course there are side-effects, from steroids and from genetic manipulation. Both can make someone mentally unstable due to hormonal imbalance.

The point is that generalising the fear based on the extremes is prejudice. It's not racism per se it's not about race, but it follows the same lines.

Athletes are getting their necks broken on the gridiron because the playing field is not level. You cannot leave the safety of nonmodified humans on the existence or lack thereof of morals, scruples, values, and awareness that may or may not exist in genies.


You're pointing out extremes. I will agree with you that those do indeed pose a danger, which is why the majority of sports competitions (or even all of them) ban steroids of many sorts. There's mandatory drug testing. I could see the same applying to genies: ensuring they are not extremely modified, or maybe even creating categories like boxing does by weight.

I was pointing out the average. The majority of genies won't have a clear an advantage, much less a definitive advantage over a lot of criteria. And I'm also supposing the majority of the population outside of Earth is a genie of some sort or another any way.

"Awareness" comes into play because there will be instances where genies may not even be aware when they pose an unnatural danger to nongenies. Or that a particular interaction or confrontation is totally unfair.


You can replace "genie" with a lot of other labels. Imagine a Sphixian who is not otherwise genetic modified: just the fact that they've lived their entire life under 1.35 gravities means they will have more muscle. The same applies to inhabitants of Bogotá, who by virtue of living at 2800+ metres above mean sea level have a higher oxygen transport capacity in their blood. I suppose a planet that receives much less sunlight would also cause its inhabitants to develop better night/twilight vision. And for each of those, you can think of an opposite: a low-gravity planet, a high-pressure (or simply higher partial oxygen pressure) one, a high-luminosity one, and so forth.

So, twins separated at birth, one raised on Sphinx (1.35 G) and the other on Mars (0.3 G), is it a fair competition? If you answer "yes," then it would be fair to allow some genies in some competitions. If you answer "no," then you have to have standards for competitions and other types of interaction, which again allows genies. And the other labels.



That's your opinion and most of the rest of the people in the forum disagreed. Especially the part that it was Nimitz, not Honor's years of practising sports of many types.

Are you also going to say that it was unfair to the Maccabeans that Nimitz was present?

What other secrets do genies throughout the Galaxy hide from nongenies, like ESP, mind reading, telekinesis, etc.


Most likely, none of those. Not even the MAlign has such things. They'd love nothing better than to crack the secret of what makes the treecat telepathy work, but they haven't yet.

None of these talents would be fair in many settings, quite dangerous in most, and downright illegal in at least one instance. Like Honor using the one specific talent in her duel against Burdette. Even Eloise lightheartedly accused Honor of "cheating" in her diplomatic efforts. Honor's ability may exist naturally in other genies even without a 'Cat.


The ability to be very perceptive can be seen as cheating. Take counting cards at casinos: it's not illegal, it's not cheating per se, but they do ask you to go away. Her advantage would be no different if Honor had really good eyesight and had been able to see the ready tells that humans have when they're lying. Studying your opponent and being really good at what you do is not cheating.

Why do you think the RMN and SIS kept files on enemy admirals and COs? Why did the PN do that (remember that Parnell recognised Honor on Cerberus)?

And besides, there's nothing so far shown that there's anything genetic about Honor's empathic abilities. The only correlation we have is that her father also has very good empathic abilities. For all we know, it's a characteristic that is inherent on all humans and simply latent. So the fact that she did exercise and learn how to use her talent (and she did, she trained with Nimitz) makes her again no different from athletes, skilled surgeons, successful diplomats, or Nobel laureates.

And why is the consensus that nongenies will always be the ones picking a fight. Are you all suggesting that genies are all kindly, cuddly teddy bears without screws loose? Like humans on steroids.


Oh, definitely not. Exhibit A: Alignment.

But again you prove the point: unmodified humans are perfectly capable of extremes too.

But to think genies have themselves under control is preposterous. Even Honor can be a nutcase.


But to think that non-genies have themselves under control is preposterous.

I'm not saying genies are inherently good or inherently bad. I'm saying that on average their differences make them no more different than another, unmodified human from a place and culture very far away. Assuming such a thing exists as unmodified humans.

I still think the MA can choose to fight fire with fire by divulging Honor's secret, possibly causing a Constitutional and religious crisis on Grayson. Plus the MA can air all of the Winton's secrets of how they downplay their genie status.


Agreed, but not because of her genie status. Her high metabolism and strength are quite obvious to most people who've met her. It would be because of her being a descendant of an Alignment-designed genotype.

The MA can cause upheaval in the MBS by sowing seeds of doubt about Treecats controlling humans by mind control, and that they were simply fighting fire with fire by using nanite control. We as readers know better, but a galaxy of humans who are already testy about Treecats won't. Opening up about the details of Honor's encounter with Burdette will get the ball rolling if the MA so chooses to fight fire with fire.

I would imagine the danger represented by genies is why contact sports is nearly extinct throughout the HV.

And when the Galaxy absorbs the rest of the Frankensteins of the MA, things will get a lot worse.


I again agree that there's a lot of damage the MAlign can do by way of PR. Whether what they say is true or not is irrelevant. It would be just a bonus for them if the kernel of the message is actually true, but having to concoct a packet full of lies would not be more than a minor speed bump in a PR / propaganda campaign.

I agree that contact sports are probably nearly extinct, but the reason having nothing to do with genies. Take the example of the Martian and Sphinxian twins from above: those twain would have identical genes, but would never play the same sport against with one another.
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Re: Do anti-genies have a point?
Post by Duckk   » Wed May 19, 2021 6:53 am

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:roll:

Why don’t you ask about what was unfair for Honor? Burdette had, what, 2 decades of experience with the sword, she had about a year. Honor was wounded and exhausted, Burdette was neither.

Trial by combat of this sort is never about fairness. Never. Trial by combat, both historically and this specific case, has always been an appeal to God to protect the righteous. God would send a divine boon to save the accused if he was truly just. Fairness never enters the picture.
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Re: Do anti-genies have a point?
Post by cthia   » Wed May 19, 2021 10:41 am

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Duckk wrote:


:roll:

Why don’t you ask about what was unfair for Honor? Burdette had, what, 2 decades of experience with the sword, she had about a year. Honor was wounded and exhausted, Burdette was neither.

Trial by combat of this sort is never about fairness. Never. Trial by combat, both historically and this specific case, has always been an appeal to God to protect the righteous. God would send a divine boon to save the accused if he was truly just. Fairness never enters the picture.

Sigh

That objection was fielded and summarily dealt with in the proper thread.

Challenging Honor under those circumstances was NOT unfair, OR illegal. And it wouldn't have been considered murder either, as was so handily bandied about in that thread. It was well within the rules of the duel.

Smuggling a secret weapon into the duel that would undoubtedly detect the crease IS illegal, unfair, immoral, unrighteous, unjust, and murder. Absolutely unfair, since the crease is said to be the most important vehicle to master if one wants to live.

BUT! For the last time, your objection and ThinksMarkedly's objections only hold water outside of Grayson where religion and faith in God does not come first and foremost in the culture. Again, ON GRAYSON, Honor's specific talent of being able to detect the crease is unfair, illegal, and tantamount to murder! Because Grayson's foundation is built on religion and faith in God. For an infidel, it seems it is impossible to understand that what makes it unfair on Grayson is that it makes it... unrighteous. Unrighteousness, deceit, and unfairness is NOT a hallmark of Godliness. The transgression is against God, not against man!

Of course, no infidel would agree. Which corroborates the Opposition's concerns about dealing with the jaded, limited and infidel mindsets of, well... infidels.

Burdette had a Godly right to expect the duel to be orchestrated righteously. Which is what made it unfair. The fact that Honor was wounded and tired quite frankly was NOT Burdette's problem.

One thing more that infidels have a hard time assimilating is "free will." Ironically, free will was brought up in that thread, by an infidel? Infidels have a hard time understanding the true scope of free will. For example, it was stated that the outcome of the duel should have determined where God's wishes lie. But that wasn't necessarily true because God's house was tainted by deceit. Deceit by the head of the very Church which claims to stand and speak for Tester. It was a deceit that flourished because it was an inside job. Will Tester strike down the Church or the Protector because he misuses his power? No. That is where free will comes in to play. Man, and Protector Benjamin, has free will to choose between good or evil, righteousness or unrighteousness, fairness or unfairness. Only one side of each coin has anything to do with God. I'll trust ye all can choose which.

At any rate, perhaps you are now ready to understand why, inherently, THERE MUST ALWAYS BE A SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. Lest man arrogantly think he can speak for God. Again, what happens when man's views become corrupt.

Even Weber cannot create a world where man can speak for God.

Please, revisit the thread and actually read it for understanding this time.

Oh, and ThinksMarkedly, it is true that Honor claims not to know what actually caused her to recognize Burdette's crease. And yes, it could have been her years as a martial artist. But even textev disputes that. Nimitz was not going to have it any other way.

Perhaps if Honor is hypnotized, she can recall exactly what happened.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Do anti-genies have a point?
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Wed May 19, 2021 1:25 pm

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cthia wrote:Smuggling a secret weapon into the duel that would undoubtedly detect the crease IS illegal, unfair, immoral, unrighteous, unjust, and murder. Absolutely unfair, since the crease is said to be the most important vehicle to master if one wants to live.

BUT! For the last time, your objection and ThinksMarkedly's objections only hold water outside of Grayson where religion and faith in God does not come first and foremost in the culture. Again, ON GRAYSON, Honor's specific talent of being able to detect the crease is unfair, illegal, and tantamount to murder! Because Grayson's foundation is built on religion and faith in God. For an infidel, it seems it is impossible to understand that what makes it unfair on Grayson is that it makes it... unrighteous. Unrighteousness, deceit, and unfairness is NOT a hallmark of Godliness. The transgression is against God, not against man!


And we can turn that argument around. If God / Tester is omnipotent and omniscient, then there was nothing secret to His eyes. Therefore, there can never be anything unfair in His eyes. The fact that Honor had extra abilities should be seen as her having His favour and therefore being righteous. Maybe He gave her His blessing in the form of a 9-kilo 6-limbed, furry and telepathic treecat. And do note she had survived two duels by this point.

Another argument is that there is no God or, if He exists, He does not intervene (which has the same effect). Therefore, any trial by combat is inherently unfair and leads to spectacularly unpredictable results. Therefore, he who requested and those who accepted and abided trial by combat are eschewing all claims for fairness.

So this can be seen in many ways. You may disagree. It may be against your religious and moral interpretation. That's not up for debate, though. If you're arguing that whatever happened, however the characters have reacted, it may not have been God's true will, you may be right (or not). I don't want to debate that, though. You're entitled to your interpretations according to your morals and beliefs, as I am.

I'm simply claiming that according to the laws of Grayson, as interpreted by the duly elected leaders, who in turn truly believe they have Tester's blessing and favour, Honor's actions were fair and honourable. The Conclave and the Church accepted the result. THAT is not up for debate.

At any rate, perhaps you are now ready to understand why, inherently, THERE MUST ALWAYS BE A SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. Lest man arrogantly think he can speak for God. Again, what happens when man's views become corrupt.


My personal opinion doesn't matter (though yes, I agree there must be separation).

Even Weber cannot create a world where man can speak for God.


That's completely irrelevant. David is not claiming that his characters are, truly, speaking for God. The novels are a work of fiction, not theological treatises. What he is claiming is that his characters believe they do.

And that's the limit of what I will discuss.
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Re: Do anti-genies have a point?
Post by cthia   » Wed May 19, 2021 2:50 pm

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cthia wrote:Smuggling a secret weapon into the duel that would undoubtedly detect the crease IS illegal, unfair, immoral, unrighteous, unjust, and murder. Absolutely unfair, since the crease is said to be the most important vehicle to master if one wants to live.

BUT! For the last time, your objection and ThinksMarkedly's objections only hold water outside of Grayson where religion and faith in God does not come first and foremost in the culture. Again, ON GRAYSON, Honor's specific talent of being able to detect the crease is unfair, illegal, and tantamount to murder! Because Grayson's foundation is built on religion and faith in God. For an infidel, it seems it is impossible to understand that what makes it unfair on Grayson is that it makes it... unrighteous. Unrighteousness, deceit, and unfairness is NOT a hallmark of Godliness. The transgression is against God, not against man!
ThinksMarkedly wrote:And we can turn that argument around. If God / Tester is omnipotent and omniscient, then there was nothing secret to His eyes. Therefore, there can never be anything unfair in His eyes.

Huh? Oftentimes the views of a nonbeliever are enuff to make a Christian go... W :o E!

What a mismash of infidelic views. OMG, when the lost are lost in Christ, they are really lost.

It wasn't a secret to God. It was—and still is—a secret to Burdette, and to all the rest of Grayson. Except Benjamin and maybe an Armsman or two, who will take the secret to their grave. But the body of Christ—the People of Grayson—are not aware of the deceit.

But saying unfairness cannot happen in God's presence? What the hell do you think is happening on Earth between the races? Ok, you don't believe God exists therefore that question is meaningless to you.

Well, the first thing that came to mind was Matthew 18:26 ...
The Unforgiving Servant

…26 Then the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Have patience with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’

27 His master had compassion on him, forgave his debt, and released him.

28 But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. He grabbed him and began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay back what you owe me!’

—Berean Study Bible

But, to someone who doesn't believe God exists, that is meaningless as well. But to the Graysons, God exists.

That remark is yet another example of really not understanding what Free Will truly means. Or its scope.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:The fact that Honor had extra abilities should be seen as her having His favour and therefore being righteous. Maybe He gave her His blessing in the form of a 9-kilo 6-limbed, furry and telepathic treecat. And do note she had survived two duels by this point.


A good point, but no cigar. Already beat to death.

There is nothing new to see here. Same old arguments that have been laid to rest. Speaking of rest, I rest my case with the discussion in the Ramblings thread. Unless you'd like to resurrect that thread. But! I shall only respond if there is something new to see.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Do anti-genies have a point?
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Wed May 19, 2021 4:56 pm

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cthia wrote:Huh? Oftentimes the views of a nonbeliever are enuff to make a Christian go... W :o E!


Who are these nonbeliever you are referring to? It's pretty difficult to follow your train of thought. If you meant me, you're projecting and wrong.

It wasn't a secret to God. It was—and still is—a secret to Burdette, and to all the rest of Grayson. Except Benjamin and maybe an Armsman or two, who will take the secret to their grave. But the body of Christ—the People of Grayson—are not aware of the deceit.


Correct, Burdette wasn't aware. I don't see how that is relevant, though. Complete knowledge of one's opponent's life is not a requirement to have a trial by combat. It can't be because it's impossible to have that.

But saying unfairness cannot happen in God's presence? What the hell do you think is happening on Earth between the races? Ok, you don't believe God exists therefore that question is meaningless to you.


I'm making strawman arguments. They are all possible interpretations, given what we know of Grayson law and the scriptures of the Church of Humanity Unchained. Unless you can quote passages from either of those texts that contradict.


The Unforgiving Servant

…26 Then the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Have patience with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’

27 His master had compassion on him, forgave his debt, and released him.

28 But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. He grabbed him and began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay back what you owe me!’

—Berean Study Bible

But, to someone who doesn't believe God exists, that is meaningless as well. But to the Graysons, God exists.

That remark is yet another example of really not understanding what Free Will truly means. Or its scope.


I'm familiar with the passage but I fail to see how it's relevant. Unless you can produce a copy of the Church of Humanity Unchained annotated holy scriptures showing how they interpret this passage, how you or I interpret it is irrelevant.

For the last time, I'm not debating whether you think the combat was fair or not. I can accept your having a different opinion than mine and I thank you for letting us know what your arguments and reasons are. But since they are based on subjective reasons, instead of objective facts (and "fairness" often has to be), I'm not seeking to change your opinion. It's a completely different outcome than when we're discussing whether a ship in stealth can come to under a light-second of another.

But it does seem like we're reaching the end of this part of the thread.
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Re: Do anti-genies have a point?
Post by Brigade XO   » Wed May 19, 2021 9:07 pm

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This ground again.
Burdette was caught in TREASON, accused in front of the entire Steadholders Assembly and had, in general 2 options (if you disregard having his Armsmen try to extract him from the hall with deadly force) 1) be taken into custody for a Treason trial or 2) call for Trial By Combat...which -as you are aware- he knew would be against Harrington as the Protector's Champion and who was injured though survived the shooting down of the shuttle and the ground attempt on her life which did kill Rev Hicks? (disremember his name)
So The Champion swordsman decides to face a "neophyte" with the sword (though known to be taking lessons with a superior master) and she just survived a crash-landing of a military shuttle that had been shot down by his henchmen, and she is clearly worse for ware.

He gets to wait -in comfort and we get to see his thought processes- while someone retrieves his sword...you know, the one he had used in how many dozens if not hundreds of competitive (and serious) events. He's sure he can take the foreign bitch who is at leasts battered and probably shaken (he would have been) and can't possibly stand against him in a blood match.
Cocky and arrogant. He believes he knows everything he needs to know including that he is a vastly superior swordsman and although Harringtion is an experienced Naval warrior, she can't be anywhere close to his skill and expertise in the chosen weapons.

.....and there is that little matter of the Maccabee attack on the Protector and staff plus Honor where there was that marvelous video of Harrington in action having been surprised by an assault of assassins and demonstrating that she really is the human buzzsaw and master level martial artist. Do you think Burdette might just have watched that as the time and just possibly he discounted that demonstration of.....aptitude, reaction time, stamina, determined lethality....that the film seems to have shown. Not actors or holo-drama, government security footage.

Burdette was confident he knew and was capable of everything he needed to face the injured Harrington with a sword with her as the Protector's Champion in a Trial by Combat.
Kill her and the Treason problem would go away---and with it that foreign bitch to the grave.

What's the saying? "You can't fix stupid, and it should hurt"
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Re: Do anti-genies have a point?
Post by cthia   » Wed May 19, 2021 10:41 pm

cthia
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Brigade XO wrote:This ground again.
Burdette was caught in TREASON, accused in front of the entire Steadholders Assembly and had, in general 2 options (if you disregard having his Armsmen try to extract him from the hall with deadly force) 1) be taken into custody for a Treason trial or 2) call for Trial By Combat...which -as you are aware- he knew would be against Harrington as the Protector's Champion and who was injured though survived the shooting down of the shuttle and the ground attempt on her life which did kill Rev Hicks? (disremember his name)
So The Champion swordsman decides to face a "neophyte" with the sword (though known to be taking lessons with a superior master) and she just survived a crash-landing of a military shuttle that had been shot down by his henchmen, and she is clearly worse for ware.

He gets to wait -in comfort and we get to see his thought processes- while someone retrieves his sword...you know, the one he had used in how many dozens if not hundreds of competitive (and serious) events. He's sure he can take the foreign bitch who is at leasts battered and probably shaken (he would have been) and can't possibly stand against him in a blood match.
Cocky and arrogant. He believes he knows everything he needs to know including that he is a vastly superior swordsman and although Harringtion is an experienced Naval warrior, she can't be anywhere close to his skill and expertise in the chosen weapons.

.....and there is that little matter of the Maccabee attack on the Protector and staff plus Honor where there was that marvelous video of Harrington in action having been surprised by an assault of assassins and demonstrating that she really is the human buzzsaw and master level martial artist. Do you think Burdette might just have watched that as the time and just possibly he discounted that demonstration of.....aptitude, reaction time, stamina, determined lethality....that the film seems to have shown. Not actors or holo-drama, government security footage.

Burdette was confident he knew and was capable of everything he needed to face the injured Harrington with a sword with her as the Protector's Champion in a Trial by Combat.
Kill her and the Treason problem would go away---and with it that foreign bitch to the grave.

What's the saying? "You can't fix stupid, and it should hurt"

:lol:

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Do anti-genies have a point?
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Thu May 20, 2021 12:12 am

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Brigade XO wrote:This ground again.
Burdette was caught in TREASON, accused in front of the entire Steadholders Assembly and had, in general 2 options (if you disregard having his Armsmen try to extract him from the hall with deadly force) 1) be taken into custody for a Treason trial or 2) call for Trial By Combat...which -as you are aware- he knew would be against Harrington as the Protector's Champion and who was injured though survived the shooting down of the shuttle and the ground attempt on her life which did kill Rev Hicks? (disremember his name)


Reverend Julius Hanks, head of the Church of Humanity Unchained.

I don't know if the Church subscribes to the infallibility of its leaders, like the Catholic Church did in the medieval times. If it does, then the fact that Hanks was friends with Honor and gave her his favour could be interpreted as having Tester's favour too. But no, I don't think the non-Reformed side of the Church did that.

He believes he knows everything he needs to know including that he is a vastly superior swordsman and although Harringtion is an experienced Naval warrior, she can't be anywhere close to his skill and expertise in the chosen weapons.


This was a failed assumption of his.

And didn't Honor practice fencing at the academy? Or am I confusing her with Jean-Luc Picard?
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