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To End in Fire

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: To End in Fire
Post by jtg452   » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:30 pm

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:Strong indicator, but still circumstantial. It's entirely possible that someone else has acquired the technology, either by independent development, industrial espionage, or simply duping the Mesans into making that for them.

So, yeah, I'll be very interested on who from the Ghost Hunters is sent to Mesa and how they interact with the Explosive Duo (Cachat & Zilwicki). I'll also be paying attention as to how the Solarian agent reacts to Plays with Fire (Harahap's treecat) and whether the secret that it was the treecats that managed to identify the moles in the GA governments and military does get revealed to them. I could see a treecat mission to Earth in the near future if it does.


Don't forget that we are talking about the decisions of nation-states, not a civilian court case. 'Circumstantial' 'indications' and 'hearsay' are as good as gold.

The Sollies are hunting for who set them up with malice and forethought. When they find them, they aren't going to pull out a set of handcuffs. They will be pulling out a scalping knife.

Even if they aren't in a situation to do the scalping themselves, I'm pretty certain they'd be more than happy to hold the GA's- and Andies, don't forget that the MA attacked the line of secession there- coats while they got busy.

How many real wars have been fought based on far less evidence than what the Sollies have right now?

The second Iraqi invasion, for example, was built on what 'everybody knew' Sadaam (who, no doubt, needed killin' on general principles) was doing with chemical and biological weapons. Every major intelligence service was duped.

Too bad it was all an Iraqi disinformation campaign (another example of Sadaam's penchant for sabre rattling and intimidation) that worked a little too well for their own good.
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Re: To End in Fire
Post by cthia   » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:53 pm

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jtg452 wrote:
ThinksMarkedly wrote:Strong indicator, but still circumstantial. It's entirely possible that someone else has acquired the technology, either by independent development, industrial espionage, or simply duping the Mesans into making that for them.

So, yeah, I'll be very interested on who from the Ghost Hunters is sent to Mesa and how they interact with the Explosive Duo (Cachat & Zilwicki). I'll also be paying attention as to how the Solarian agent reacts to Plays with Fire (Harahap's treecat) and whether the secret that it was the treecats that managed to identify the moles in the GA governments and military does get revealed to them. I could see a treecat mission to Earth in the near future if it does.


Don't forget that we are talking about the decisions of nation-states, not a civilian court case. 'Circumstantial' 'indications' and 'hearsay' are as good as gold.

The Sollies are hunting for who set them up with malice and forethought. When they find them, they aren't going to pull out a set of handcuffs. They will be pulling out a scalping knife.

Even if they aren't in a situation to do the scalping themselves, I'm pretty certain they'd be more than happy to hold the GA's- and Andies, don't forget that the MA attacked the line of secession there- coats while they got busy.

How many real wars have been fought based on far less evidence than what the Sollies have right now?

The second Iraqi invasion, for example, was built on what 'everybody knew' Sadaam (who, no doubt, needed killin' on general principles) was doing with chemical and biological weapons. Every major intelligence service was duped.

Too bad it was all an Iraqi disinformation campaign (another example of Sadaam's penchant for sabre rattling and intimidation) that worked a little too well for their own good.

And... because oftentimes where there is smoke, there is fire. But, it is true that circumstantial evidence isn't enough to convict. See the Green Pines incident and all of the false flags created by Harahap. However, lacking other evidence, circumstantial evidence is a windfall.

I just now realized the League might haven't gone live with the news out of the fear of ruining the investigation. They wouldn't want to alert the enemy they are being observed, followed, researched...

Anyone else want to know what "End in Fire" suggests? Remember when we all tried to guess the title for what turned out to be Uncompromising Honor? I actually looked for passages or storyline to support the title. It usually does. IOW, what - or who - will end in fire?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: To End in Fire
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:15 pm

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cthia wrote:Anyone else want to know what "End in Fire" suggests? Remember when we all tried to guess the title for what turned out to be Uncompromising Honor? I actually looked for passages or storyline to support the title. It usually does. IOW, what - or who - will end in fire?


So you want to judge the book by its cover? Well, the cover has a space station of some sort with explosions. Maybe it's Parmley Station that ends in fire?

Or you can make a completely wild guess, like Fred Armisen did: Fred Judges a Book by Its Cover: Uncompromising Honor by David Weber
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Re: To End in Fire
Post by cthia   » Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:46 pm

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
cthia wrote:Anyone else want to know what "End in Fire" suggests? Remember when we all tried to guess the title for what turned out to be Uncompromising Honor? I actually looked for passages or storyline to support the title. It usually does. IOW, what - or who - will end in fire?


So you want to judge the book by its cover? Well, the cover has a space station of some sort with explosions. Maybe it's Parmley Station that ends in fire?

Or you can make a completely wild guess, like Fred Armisen did: Fred Judges a Book by Its Cover: Uncompromising Honor by David Weber

I saw that before, and it is funny.

I am talking more like judging the cover by the book. Or more specifically, judging the title by the book.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: To End in Fire
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:30 pm

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cthia wrote:Anyone else want to know what "End in Fire" suggests?


Something's just occurred to me: Damien Harahap's codename was Firestarter, his treecat name is Plays with Fire, and his treecat is now known as Fire Watch.

And we know they'll be in this book.

Coincidence? I think not.
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Re: To End in Fire
Post by Brigade XO   » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:40 am

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Perhaps Damien and FireWatch crack the answer to the Alignment and they get to watch as the GA expunges the Alignment from the universe by triggering the self destruct system the Alignment -in their omnipotent wisdom - has seeded through the entire Darius system including a nuclear cleansing and then multiple super volcano eruptions on the planet? The citizens of Torch free to hunt down any survivors and their flunkies and "align" them to fertilizer.
Seems fitting.
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Re: To End in Fire
Post by cthia   » Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:38 am

cthia
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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
cthia wrote:Anyone else want to know what "End in Fire" suggests?


Something's just occurred to me: Damien Harahap's codename was Firestarter, his treecat name is Plays with Fire, and his treecat is now known as Fire Watch.

And we know they'll be in this book.

Coincidence? I think not.

You, Mister, are what one of my teachers used to refer to as a studious student. Exciting observation!

Or, Beowulf may be destined to have her date with destiny? Beowulf is now detested by her ex-lover AND the MA.

Or, Torch could be torched.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: To End in Fire
Post by Peter2   » Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:12 pm

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jtg452 wrote:[snip]

The Sollies are hunting for who set them up with malice and forethought. When they find them, they aren't going to pull out a set of handcuffs. They will be pulling out a scalping knife.


Scalping knife? Much too kind, surely – how about skinning knife? :twisted: :evil:

jtg452 wrote:Even if they aren't in a situation to do the scalping themselves, I'm pretty certain they'd be more than happy to hold the GA's- and Andies, don't forget that the MA attacked the line of secession there- coats while they got busy.

How many real wars have been fought based on far less evidence than what the Sollies have right now?

The second Iraqi invasion, for example, was built on what 'everybody knew' Sadaam (who, no doubt, needed killin' on general principles) was doing with chemical and biological weapons. Every major intelligence service was duped.

Too bad it was all an Iraqi disinformation campaign (another example of Sadaam's penchant for sabre rattling and intimidation) that worked a little too well for their own good.


Sorry, but I have to disagree with this, in part at least. My understanding is that the people who actually went and investigated reported that Saddam didn't have advanced chemical or biological weapons. Whether their reports were disbelieved or ignored as politically inconvenient, I would not like to speculate. And by "politically inconvenient", I'm not necessarily referring to the politicians. IMO all it would take would be some credible people with set opinions – the wrong set opinions.
.
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Re: To End in Fire
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:51 pm

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Peter2 wrote:Scalping knife? Much too kind, surely – how about skinning knife? :twisted: :evil:


Surely some people in the League have a Ramsay Bolton streak, but that can't be the policy where the GA can see. The new league is still on probation.
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Re: To End in Fire
Post by kzt   » Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:09 pm

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Peter2 wrote:
Sorry, but I have to disagree with this, in part at least. My understanding is that the people who actually went and investigated reported that Saddam didn't have advanced chemical or biological weapons. Whether their reports were disbelieved or ignored as politically inconvenient, I would not like to speculate. And by "politically inconvenient", I'm not necessarily referring to the politicians. IMO all it would take would be some credible people with set opinions – the wrong set opinions.
.

Sure. In late 1945 we knew that Hitler did not have a viable nuclear weapon program. But we didn’t know that in 1944 and it wasn’t generally believed to be the case. Being able to poke around and make people answer your questions really helps.
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