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Future of the Renaissance Factor

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Future of the Renaissance Factor
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:27 pm

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As I've just posted in the wormhole assault thread, the RF was not created to be a military power. Its core navies were not important at all to begin with. True, Mannerheim's had an "outsized" navy, which I'm willing to grant was the biggest after the Haven Sector navies, the SLN and the BSDF. They may be "Tier One" because they could field at least one SD squadron, but the obsolete ships they have can't stand against the GA.

I'm arguing that their objective never was to be a military power. The Detweiler Plan called for them to be, quoting Capt. Sheridan in Babylon 5's Season 2 opening and in honour of Mira Furlan's passing, " A shining beacon in space . . . all alone in the night." They were supposed to be the civilisation when the rest of the Galaxy fell into chaos.

So what now that the Galaxy did not fall into chaos?

Here's what I think they should do: they should come out in support of the Benign Alignment. David has begun to use this phrase to refer to the outer shell of the Alignment onion that was left on Mesa, those who had no idea what the true goals of the Plan was, in direct opposition to the "Malignant Alignment," from people saying "MAlign". Those who have come out after the GA invasion of Mesa to say they were indeed looking to enhance Humanity genetically, but were afraid of not being understood.

The RF can therefore carve a political position that is entirely valid, supports some of the goals of the Alignment, and is at the same time in opposition to the GA's persecution of the Alignment. They can politically advance the cause of genetic uplift, combat genetic slavery (which all their members have outlawed), and deflect the search for the identity of "The Other Guys."

With some behind the scenes media manipulation, this can advance the cause by leaps and bounds, letting Darius concentrate on building its war fleet.

What do you think?
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Re: Future of the Renaissance Factor
Post by Fireflair   » Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:17 am

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I always felt that the RF was meant to be the new organized star nation organization, a la the League, but under the control of the MAlignment.

The military part of the equation was mostly to have a way to protect the smaller star nations as they are encouraged to seek the protection of their bigger and more powerful neighbors. It wasn't about having the biggest or most powerful navy, just having something more than a couple of corvettes running around in their own yard could really mean something.

Once the RF had gathered enough planets to it's own banner it would continue a very public campaign of supporting the development of independence amongst it's nations, and equality, etc etc. All the while the MAlign would be pulling the strings as it set things up for it's own end game.

The problem, imo, with the MAlign is that if they really just wanted to advance the human genome and improve to the limits of genetics this whole crusade was wasteful, pointless and could have been avoided. They could have improved the genome, proven Beowulf wrong and Detwiler right by more humane actions. No, the MAlign is after revenge and the destruction of Beowulf especially. They want their star lines on top, running things with the Detwilers in charge.

So we're left with the mess of the galaxy as it currently stands. The Terrible Trio is going to go ghost hunting, chasing down leads as they try to find the MAlign, while the RF is busy building it's little empire. The MAlign will be building their fleets and technology, catching up over time to the GA. The GA, without obvious pressure from obvious attackers is going to have to roll back it's fleet and expenditures. The Crown will fight this, of course, and emphasize that they can't stint on R&D, etc. most likely the MAlign will eventually get some one into Bolthole and compromise a bunch of secrets. Probably do a fair bit of damage too, which will galvanize a fresh search for the MAlign which may bear fruit. At this time have the Terrible Trio show up hot on the trail of some bit of data they've just fleshed out and find Darius....

I dunno, seems like a thought, at least.
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Re: Future of the Renaissance Factor
Post by kzt   » Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:14 am

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It was just a minor error in the fusion reactor containment code...
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Re: Future of the Renaissance Factor
Post by cthia   » Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:55 am

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:As I've just posted in the wormhole assault thread, the RF was not created to be a military power.

Agreed. It was not. It did not have to be. Its military was the MAN by proxy. The RF was only meant to be the transformation of the MA. It was supposed to function as the MA's underground railroad which essentially laundered (or smuggled if you prefer) the whole of the disenfranchised people from down South (illegally modified citizens from Darius) to an accepting society up North, represented by the RF.

The RF was meant to be the secret identity of the MA who welcomed them with open arms and who would allow them to be incorporated and accepted into a normal and proper society.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Its core navies were not important at all to begin with. True, Mannerheim's had an "outsized" navy, which I'm willing to grant was the biggest after the Haven Sector navies, the SLN and the BSDF. They may be "Tier One" because they could field at least one SD squadron, but the obsolete ships they have can't stand against the GA.

I'm arguing that their objective never was to be a military power. The Detweiler Plan called for them to be, quoting Capt. Sheridan in Babylon 5's Season 2 opening and in honour of Mira Furlan's passing, " A shining beacon in space . . . all alone in the night." They were supposed to be the civilisation when the rest of the Galaxy fell into chaos.

Agreed, its core navies were not exactly important immediately, but were going to have to become so in the long run, to achieve its overarching goals of becoming a beacon in the night, and to control the chaos. You cannot control chaos without might.

Might is represented by a powerful navy. I think the goal was to grow that navy and military out of the participation of the solicited remnants of the chaotic and splintered factions of the League, and anyone else who wanted to rebel against whatever other regime or government they hated. It was a wonderful plan because the only navies who would be able to oppose them in the face of a humbled SL would be Haven (if it hadn't been humbled as well by its original MA scheduled bout with the SL), Manticore and the Andermani, before Grayson became a power. Neither would have had cause or beef with the RF. In fact, as per the RFs message to the galaxy, the RF would have been embraced and supported by the major navies. And why not, the RF would openly and outwardly speak against slavery too.

It was also a perfect plan because it didn't require the galaxy to roll back the Beowulf Code. Which is a nonstarter. The Beowulf Code was to be rolled back by cause and effect, after the galaxy witnessed the success of the RF. And (cough) its disguised master race.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:So what now that the Galaxy did not fall into chaos?

Here's what I think they should do: they should come out in support of the Benign Alignment. David has begun to use this phrase to refer to the outer shell of the Alignment onion that was left on Mesa,

The pawns who were double-crossed and rolled under the bus.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:...those who had no idea what the true goals of the Plan was, in direct opposition to the "Malignant Alignment," from people saying "MAlign". Those who have come out after the GA invasion of Mesa to say they were indeed looking to enhance Humanity genetically, but were afraid of not being understood.

So far so good.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:The RF can therefore carve a political position that is entirely valid, supports some of the goals of the Alignment, and is at the same time in opposition to the GA's persecution of the Alignment. They can politically advance the cause of genetic uplift, combat genetic slavery (which all their members have outlawed), and deflect the search for the identity of "The Other Guys."

This plan sounds divine. Speaking for the MA, final approvement will hinge on what constitutes the "other" parts of the MA's plan which are implied isn't accepted by your use of "some." If the RF don't come out in full support of the MAs plans, that will be a conflict of interest, and I can't see the MA negotiating and forgoing any of their objectives that they have planned and "fought for" for centuries.

In fact, it sounds like an omen to the MA of more of the same old judgement they got out of the Beowulf Code. Does the RF plan to make enemies of the MA? The MA has an all or nothing attitude. No more being censured and pigeonholed. The MA literally has no line they will not cross in the laboratory and what is coming out of them now is only the tip of the iceberg. Also, slavery was the Mesan's cash cow, was it not? And the MA despised their use of slavery.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:With some behind the scenes media manipulation, this can advance the cause by leaps and bounds, letting Darius concentrate on building its war fleet.

What do you think?

I think it is a wonderful plan considering the mess the MA made. IF -- and this is a big If -- this "new RF" is beholding to the full original plans of the Detweilers and if they will be endorsed by the original plan members. Which includes the LRPB, the Detweilers ...

It would also require that Mesa forgive the MA. If this plan is simply meant to be a ruse in the MA's favor, then fine. If not, this new RF will only become a target. And I'm afraid they would be setting themselves up to be pawns by the MA again. With possibly already well placed MA sleepers within their midst.

However, nothing will deflect the GA from looking for Darius.

Disclaimer: Do forgive my affinity for analogies. No intent to harm is meant. Analogies are meant to breach the great divide in communication, which is represented by ...

"Darmok and Jalad at Tenagra. When the walls fell."

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Future of the Renaissance Factor
Post by jtg452   » Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:57 am

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I've always seen the RF as a stalking horse for the MAlign.

The plan was for it to be a bubble of stability in the chaos of the dissolution of the League. A voice of reason in a time of madness, as it were. Since the League's fall is much softer- and the resulting chaos was minimized- than the Detweilers envisioned, the bubble of stability aspect is less important.

However, they will still emerge as one of the more stable successor states to the League and I can see them consistently exerting their independence when interacting with any of the GA members. Not quite provocations and shooting incidents between their navies but testy and strained interactions at the ground level while the diplomats talk past each other about the prerogatives of nation-states.

Since nobody knows their true affiliations, setting them up as a reasonable, moderate but fiercely independent successor state that's a real player on the galactic stage makes for a great cover for their more covert activities.
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Re: Future of the Renaissance Factor
Post by Theemile   » Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:26 pm

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It also supposed to be a fulcrum for breaking apart the league from the inside. A rational opposing voice on the inside for weaker members to rally behind, while loudly criticizing the larger actions of the SL - which were being driven by implanted agents and reactions to MAlign actions. Once a critical mass had been achieved and the outrages too onerous, it would lead the exodus from the SL.

The cracks it helped form would allow others with historical wedges of their own to take advantage of the cracks to pull the SL apart at the seems.... until nothing was left.

But to do all that, you first needed to be on the inside, where it was most vulnerable.
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Re: Future of the Renaissance Factor
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:39 pm

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cthia wrote:Agreed, its core navies were not exactly important immediately, but were going to have to become so in the long run, to achieve its overarching goals of becoming a beacon in the night, and to control the chaos. You cannot control chaos without might.


Agreed, but that doesn't mean they have to have disproportionate military power. They're not trying to (overtly) conquer anyone by force, so having a modern Navy fielding a couple of SD squadrons, maybe one for each of the member systems, suffices.

This plan sounds divine. Speaking for the MA, final approvement will hinge on what constitutes the "other" parts of the MA's plan which are implied isn't accepted by your use of "some." If the RF don't come out in full support of the MAs plans, that will be a conflict of interest, and I can't see the MA negotiating and forgoing any of their objectives that they have planned and "fought for" for centuries.

In fact, it sounds like an omen to the MA of more of the same old judgement they got out of the Beowulf Code. Does the RF plan to make enemies of the MA? The MA has an all or nothing attitude. No more being censured and pigeonholed. The MA literally has no line they will not cross in the laboratory and what is coming out of them now is only the tip of the iceberg. Also, slavery was the Mesan's cash cow, was it not? And the MA despised their use of slavery.


Clarification: I never meant RF independence from the MAlign and the Detweilers. Everything I said is meant as RF public positioning with the direction and blessing of the Detweilers. They would support the Alignment's goals
that can be publicly supported, some that don't actually align with the Alignment (just to throw the scent off and pun intended) and not others that do align.

A rational set of Detweilers would do this. Let the RF pull in one direction while their media influences pushes in a slightly other so that they converge to the direction the MAlign wants. Or at the very least weakens the positions of their opponents.

"A rational set"

It would also require that Mesa forgive the MA. If this plan is simply meant to be a ruse in the MA's favor, then fine. If not, this new RF will only become a target. And I'm afraid they would be setting themselves up to be pawns by the MA again. With possibly already well placed MA sleepers within their midst.

However, nothing will deflect the GA from looking for Darius.


The Mesans don't have to know the RF is controlled by the very same people who deserted them. The Benign Alignment doesn't know they've been controlled, but they sure as hell know someone bombed the hell out of their planet. And the evidence is too strong to keep casting suspicions on the Tenth Fleet for longer than the next book, so the Galaxy will know The Other Guys exist.

The RF can do a lot by trying to separate "Alignment" from "Other Guys." They can sow doubt on the GA's assertion that they are one and the same, and that the Benign Alignment was controlled by the malignant component. This is a win-win for them: they advance their cause and they weaken the GA's position. And in so doing, they can pull members off the League and into the RF's sphere of influence, not the GA's.
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Re: Future of the Renaissance Factor
Post by Jonathan_S   » Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:52 pm

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
cthia wrote:Agreed, its core navies were not exactly important immediately, but were going to have to become so in the long run, to achieve its overarching goals of becoming a beacon in the night, and to control the chaos. You cannot control chaos without might.


Agreed, but that doesn't mean they have to have disproportionate military power. They're not trying to (overtly) conquer anyone by force, so having a modern Navy fielding a couple of SD squadrons, maybe one for each of the member systems, suffices.

And in a lot of ways it's likely less scary for the ex-League systems the RF is designed to woo if the RF member doesn't have overwhelming military power. In uncertain times you're always a bit nervous about putting yourself under protection of a system with the power to turn conquistador should they choose to.

One of your neighbors is probably a more reassuring beacon of stable government if their current SDF is barely adequate to provide minor expeditionary forces to reinforce your SDF or deter minor warlordism from ex-FF units - combined with a pitch to join their new alliance to come together to jointly do the necessary R&D to develop, and then build and crew, a truly modern navy.
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Re: Future of the Renaissance Factor
Post by SharkHunter   » Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:30 pm

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Trying to think like David's evil twin, as in, the fact that Darius is also basically an arsenal system... but they can't win if they are ONE target. The MAlign as the RF controls enough systems to eventually load them up for bear against the Big Bad Manties... but they need further galactic instability to accomplish the goal of making the deployment of whatever new weapon's systems (probably a show force), with the LDs as the real and stealthy punchers, aka the B-2s of the storyline.

Thoughts?
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Re: Future of the Renaissance Factor
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:48 pm

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SharkHunter wrote:Trying to think like David's evil twin, as in, the fact that Darius is also basically an arsenal system... but they can't win if they are ONE target. The MAlign as the RF controls enough systems to eventually load them up for bear against the Big Bad Manties... but they need further galactic instability to accomplish the goal of making the deployment of whatever new weapon's systems (probably a show force, with the LDs as the real punchers.

Thoughts?


Exactly. That's why they'll need to fabricate some instability by opposing the GA policies. They can't cry foul for everything like the SL did because that by itself will call attention, but they can take it slow.

Another thing the RF can use to hammer the GA about will be when the RoH and the SEM declare their union. Especially if, as in the thread on the expansion of the Empire, the empire does expand. Then the RF will call the imperialists and expansionists and that should give them an excuse to arm themselves.

Actually, now that I think of it, they don't even need to create those reasons with the GA. MAlign agents can create warlords and petty kingdoms, which will provide plenty of reason to build the RFN. Real reasons.
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