Re: What happens to all that debris? | |
---|---|
by SharkHunter » Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:14 pm | |
SharkHunter
Posts: 1608
|
My thoughts... as an author who is also a fan, as this is how I would do it as well. Though perhaps I would place a few lines of text in the epilogue of a first book (OBS( or more likely the opening in a second novel (HotQ) to announce that cleanup from battle X was taking place. Magical hand-wavium, somehow it happens and we buy it and move on without demanding the exact details. Anyway...
Although RFC doesn't specifically address it all that much, I think he does tangentially in how the various commanders look at their battles in all of the versions of the various space navies except Masada, the MAlign... and then at the end, the SLN admirals who have decided that Buccaneer is just fine -- all lunatics by any reasonable definition. Though FF and OFS seem to have give-a-damn busted corruption down to an art so there's that... Pretty much the attitude they express -- whether as the RMN, GSN, the PN even when it sucked, the RHN, IAN, etc. is that "so-and-so my superior officer will rip me a new one" if we screw it up", and though the characters don't specifically mention orbital debris, the goal is always to get the opp force to come out to battle away from the inhabited planets. In the Honorverse this supposedly has bee standard practice for centuries now. So though not mentioned precisely until it makes sense (Oyster Bay), cleaning up orbital debris is likely just one of those things that star systems are supposed to be doing anyway, and the salvage crews, etc. make a living doing it. ---------------------
All my posts are YMMV, IMHO, and welcoming polite discussion, extension, and rebuttal. This is the HonorVerse, after all |
Top |
Re: What happens to all that debris? | |
---|---|
by ThinksMarkedly » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:54 pm | |
ThinksMarkedly
Posts: 4168
|
Hopefully no one is making a profession out of this. That would mean it happens too often... |
Top |
Re: What happens to all that debris? | |
---|---|
by cthia » Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:42 am | |
cthia
Posts: 14951
|
I like your thoughts, and I know the author can't cover everything. Besides, everything isn't news worthy and the vastness of space is much too limited between the covers of a book. Having said that, how is everything catalogued? It should be expected that lots of micro debris must be ejected from explosions. This debris should be as stealthy as a warship. It's not like debris has a wedge. Sometimes you'll be able to plot possible vectors from explosions, but not always. The larger stuff, yes, but the micro debris that can kill or damage a crewman working in space or on the hull of a ship, life pods, or orbital farms? Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense |
Top |
Re: What happens to all that debris? | |
---|---|
by Brigade XO » Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:27 am | |
Brigade XO
Posts: 3115
|
In theory, the vast majority of ships enter and leave a system to or from the closest relative direction to the rest of traffic with other inhabited systems. There are a couple of clear exceptions to this. One is Cerberus where SS decided to use the point at which the 1st ship entered the system when it was discovered. The other (and more numerous) is warships which are spreading a net or blocking forces at points just outside the hyperlimit of a system being attacked to pick-off or capture ships running from the attack.
Not quite like following oceanic trade routes with adjustments for wind and currents but similar. Also in theory, it would make sence to use the least time course to get from a planitary orbit to the hyperlimit. I say theory as it does seem that if planet X was presently on or nearly on the opposite side of it's star from the direction of System G where you were next going, why would you want to pass around the star- possibly through the eliptic of the system rather than go to the closest spot you would reach at your most reasonable speed and then change diection to get to where you want to go? It seems to me that mostly (military opperations to the contrary) we see ships comming out of hyper relative to the most efficenet course reach to the desired (moving spot- usualy a planet) in the destination system. That is really the only way you could have a reasonable way of lying in wait as a pirate because othewise shipping would be dropping in from whatever they thought would be the SAFEST or potentially more safe than least-time point or even a semi-random one on a system's hyperlimit, not the most economical. Why run a guantlet of you don't need to? But the HV is described as being based to be a space version of late 18th to early 19th century ocean going civilization and you get analog points like how you approch a port. |
Top |
Re: What happens to all that debris? | |
---|---|
by Theemile » Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:24 pm | |
Theemile
Posts: 5082
|
I think it is still optimal to plot a least time course to the hyperlimit, even if you want to travel the other direction. You would merely chart a course to the hyperlimit with a zero/zero velocity just past the limit, then turn around and initiate the hyper generator, passing the system in hyper. The system gravity only effects the ship if it attempts to drop out of hyper inside a star's hyperlimit - you can pass "over" it with no problems. Otherwise, your journey will probably be as much as 2-3x as long. in a system similiar to Earth, the Hyperlimit is ~20 light minutes, and the goldilocks zone is ~8 light minutes. To reach the far side of the system (ignoring the sun's avoidance zone) would take as much as 22 light minutes of travel - almost 3x the distance. Yes, you could build up extra velocity, but most pilot attempt a near zero/zero velocity for jump unless there is a reason - it's easier on the passengers, crew and the nodes. ******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships." |
Top |
Re: What happens to all that debris? | |
---|---|
by Jonathan_S » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:57 pm | |
Jonathan_S
Posts: 8325
|
I'm not sure how many (if any) wormhole termini are further than 10 light hours. Manticore's Junction is only about 7 light hours from the primary. And a terminus is probably the furthest thing most ships ever visit in n-space. Though Binary systems might be a partial exception. One of the books mentioned that a Marine pinnace had enough range to fly from Manticore to Gryphon (though it'd need extra supplies/life-support; at least if it was carrying passengers). I'm not sure if the economics make sense for sub-light freighters to ever carry freight between binary star systems; or whether the time savings from a short hop through hyper more than make up for the extra purchase and maintenance cost of the hyper generator. So I don't know if there is actual traffic out that far or it it was just a hypothetical) |
Top |
Re: What happens to all that debris? | |
---|---|
by cthia » Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:04 pm | |
cthia
Posts: 14951
|
Meant to get back to you on this Jonathan. Beware the lackey-techy 'tis I. My apology, I still can't manage to score a date with Jayne. She's not impressed with my cologne at all. Now that I've wiped the tears of rejection. About those warship's rad shields sweeping ahead of them. What does a missile use to sweep ahead of it, traveling at such high velocities? It would need a powerful force to sweep even some of the smaller debris. The larger pieces which they must inevitably fly thru means we should hear about them ducking and dodging throughout the series. Making them lose lock, before the era of Apollo, and completely overshoot it's target at times even now, having to take even the slightest detour. Reminds me of the maneuver Manty missiles had to make to deal with Shannon's Triple Ripple. Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense |
Top |
Re: What happens to all that debris? | |
---|---|
by SharkHunter » Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:44 pm | |
SharkHunter
Posts: 1608
|
All sorts of space debris to salvage, I'd presume, not just battle damage. If there are millions of people living in orbit, I'd imagine there'd have to be a pretty good amount of infrastructure updating, etc. old satellites being decommissioned, the previous latest greatest whatever space stuff/factory, old ships, yadda yadda yadda that needs to be repurposed, etc. Probably plenty of work for those who are good at it. ---------------------
All my posts are YMMV, IMHO, and welcoming polite discussion, extension, and rebuttal. This is the HonorVerse, after all |
Top |
Re: What happens to all that debris? | |
---|---|
by tlb » Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:49 pm | |
tlb
Posts: 3960
|
Ships (and to some extent missiles) do not just have radiation shields; they also have particle shields. From Ashes of Victory, chapter 44:
|
Top |
Re: What happens to all that debris? | |
---|---|
by SharkHunter » Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:56 pm | |
SharkHunter
Posts: 1608
|
Difference being orbital velocities based on planetary radius from the stars. If I have space battle at point A perpendicular to the orbits (least time approach), by a day later, planet X (I'll use earth as an example in a moment) has shifted _________ thataway laterally. So the debris field headed in system is hopefully at a velocity where it turns into star fuel before the planets, etc. get back around during their solar year. So, using earth as an example, at 93MM Miles (roughly 150 million KM), the orbital diameter is on the order of 470 mllion KM. So by this time tomorrow, we're around 1.3 million kilometers out of the line of collision. Granted, we gotta throw in Mars, any other orbital habitats, etc. and Manticore's binary star would make the calculations REALLY screwy... But I bet for most star systems, the majority of the infrastructure tracks time-wise with the main settled planet(s). ---------------------
All my posts are YMMV, IMHO, and welcoming polite discussion, extension, and rebuttal. This is the HonorVerse, after all |
Top |