Loren_Pectel wrote:Remember Filareta's mass launch? That was presented as a standard last resort type of thing, it predates modern missile development. Thus even the original missiles have the ability to approximately follow a vector and attack whatever they find out there.
It's just that before Apollo they did a pretty poor job of it. Even with guidance missiles weren't good at staying on course over a long run.
Early missiles may have had no problem finding targets, even without links. But not without initial programming.
But do consider that even those missiles were given initial instructions on how to find the enemy, they were aimed, they were pointed in the right direction.
Missiles cannot follow a vector if they have not been given a vector to follow.
Tube launched. If they are tube launched, perhaps the instructions are input while in the launch tube, and they exit the ship on the right vector. If they have to be helped to settle down on the right vector, then they need the links. If all instructions are input after launch, then they definitely need the links. If it is cut before the initial instructions are input then the salvo should be rendered useless.
If fired from pods, the initial vector is obviously either input after they light off or just before. In the case of pods, if the initial instructions are input after they light off, then that may be the "weak link."
At any rate, a salvo should not fare well without the links guiding them in. That isn't the same as being blind fired, but it is only one step below a completely ballistic launch, where a completely ballistic launch would have no time left on its drives to maneuver. Blind firing is having no idea at all where the enemy is when you fire. It is a shot in the dark. But! Any salvo may as well be blind fired if it receives no initial targeting.
Otherwise, I agree, and that is part and parcel to the point I am trying to make. Missiles may have had no problem finding the targets before Apollo. But their effectiveness was a game of chance when they attacked. But they still needed initial instructions!
It is essential for a missile to be launched on the right flight profile, and it is just as essential to maintain that flight profile, so that it can arrive on the right flight profile to enable it to effectively attack.
If a salvo is like a place kicker on the gridiron, it would be impossible for that place kicker to split the goal posts from the most extreme angle directly on the goal line. The referee would never ask the kicker to "score" from that angle.
Likewise, a salvo cannot score hits if it attacks the targets from the wrong bearing. Most shots would just impact the wedge against an Admiral who properly maneuvers his fleet.
Making matters worse, if the enemy knows that he has "retarded" your launch, then he will maneuver accordingly. There should be absolutely no up the kilt shots, with most missiles hitting the wedge.
I will estimate that the first third of a missile's acceleration should be the most important part of its flight profile at extended ranges. Akin to the fact that the aim of a sniper's bullet can vary by a huge amount at the slightest jerk of the gun barrel. A small arc of movement causes a huge miss downrange. It is the same for missiles, the slightest angle off the flight profile in the beginning of the flight will translate into the biggest miss. Too much inaccuracy during the initial third of the acceleration and the missile's sensors may not even enter its sensor envelope. Everyone seems to be taking the initial guidance instructions for granted.
Loren_Pectel wrote:The Apollo system is capable of attacking what it's pointed at on it's own. The control links allow much better reaction to what the target does while the missile is in flight.
However, in this case the targets were utterly outclassed. Furthermore, it was only one salvo, there were no previous missiles to learn anything from and so one big reason for the link is gone. Going up against the SLN is like testing your self-drive car in an abandoned military base rather than in real traffic.
Agreed. Apollo is capable of attacking what it's pointed at. But! It must receive the initial bearing. Even Apollo has to be pointed. And as I said, I guestimate that the first third or so of the flight time is the most critical for it to be guided. And if those initial instructions are generally received after their drives light off, the effectiveness of that salvo will be very retarded if the links are cut. Possibly even without the enemy performing evasive maneuvers.
Even Apollo is dependent on being given initial instructions.
tlb wrote:Do you accept that a drone can be fired and run a complex course without special instructions from the ship?
The logistics should be a lot different for a drone. A drone has a lot of leeway to pick a vector. It isn't usually going to attack at the end if its flight.
tlb wrote:Then please explain what happened to the Solarian Fleet at Beowulf in UH; where only about ten percent of their Battle-cruisers survived an Apollo attack, which had received initial instructions and then acted autonomously. Obviously they did not need "an additional signal immediately after launch"; so it seems that they can be deadly without that link.
As you said, which had received initial instructions . Besides, the regular link was still available to the missile for the most important leg of its journey, the first third? Even before FTL, the link was available in real time for most of the important part of the leg.
Jonathan_S wrote:Nope - Beowolf lost Mycroft before the Apollo birds even launched. -snip-
But the regular links are still there, and the missiles had already received targeting data. If that data is input after launch, via the regular telemetry links, then they are critical. And they can be cut before the critical instructions can be input.
A platform needs to get in close to jam at launch and may be destroyed, but only after it has fried the components of all missiles. That would provide an LD more time for evasive maneuvers.
And do consider, the MA would be doing the jamming of a launch that is already firing in the dark. A salvo needs to get very close to a stealthy LD. If the aim is off way upwind, it will definitely catch no joy downwind.