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Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue

Fans of Bahzell and Tomenack come on in! Let's talk about David's fantasy series and our favorite hradani!
Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by Brom O'Berin   » Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:43 pm

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Gentlemen, please stop this, now.

Recall the words that follow the Welcome to the forums! They are Please behave yourself. We are guests of David and Sharon Weber.

FriarBob, you are allowed, nay encouraged, to disagree with anything or everything that anyone posts - that is what gets a discussion thread going. Just make sure that your comments are about the contents of the post and not a personal attack on the poster. Your photo, and captions, were beyond any definition of acceptable courtesy. Please don't repeat it.

AClone, your heart may have been in the right place, and I may agree with your intent, but the lack of courtesy by FriarBob does not justify the same in your post. Please don't repeat it.

In my opinion, both of you have much to contribute to the forum discussions. I would regret if Duck or the author felt it necessary to terminate your participation.

FriarBob wrote:
AClone wrote:
FriarBob wrote:
This idea was so ludicrous it deserves only one response.


That was just rude enough to illustrate your own "stupids". Not least, because you applied your own preconceptions to what the OP was trying to say. Unfortunately, I'll have to return to illustrate my point.


I look forward to your attempt. But you'll have to do a TON better, or you'll get your own picture. Because unless he literally miswrote every single word, my initial response was 100% accurate.
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Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by FriarBob   » Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:57 pm

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Both Trolls and Ghouls were legacies of the fall of Kontovar, constructs of the dark wizards, so it's rather likely the gods of light wouldn't complain about their destruction. Seek it, maybe not, but complain probably not either.

However, the Hradani are just a wee bit weakened right now. They won't be assisting South Riding in a major mission of extermination at this point in time. And if they were, then it wouldn't be a way to get rid of the problem children of South Riding, now would it?

The whole idea is an illogical impossibility.

Besides, the Sothoii DID wipe out the visible ghoul population previously... twice! ...working solely on their own. It's not that they need help to kill them. It's that they can't finish them. Because the reason the ghouls survived previously was some few survivors escaped into the Forest of the Sharmi, and nobody -- and I do indeed mean nobody -- goes there willingly. Oath of Swords made that blatantly clear for anybody willing to actually listen.

The Sothoii could push the ghouls back if they really want to. There's just no point. They can't wipe them out. You can pretend they can if you wish, but they can't. And there's no need to try either. The ghouls were terrified into subservience to their new 'gods'... then those 'gods' were all killed. The ghouls are a beaten people at this point in time. So unless you're on an extermination mission -- either of ghouls or of South Riding, either would work -- there's no point. But South Riding isn't stupid enough to go out to their own destruction, and there's no point in trying to exterminate the ghouls when it would take (at least) the massed armies of the Sothoii, the Hradani, the Axemen, and possibly the Spearmen as well just to have a chance of clearing the Sharmi out and getting that last survivor. And even then it might fail.

And even if it didn't fail, there would be HUGE casualty lists... right as the war with Kontovar is about to heat up. Does that sound like a wise allocation of resources to you? It shouldn't.

Brom O'Berin wrote:How do we know that Tomanak or any of the other Gods of Light want the ghouls, or even the trolls, wiped out?

The Sothoii want them gone because they always saw them as a threat to their herds. Gee, until not to very long ago, who else did the Sothoii desire to have wiped out?

Do we know if the ghouls and trolls are native to Norfressa, or did their ancestors also escape from Kontovar and get pushed away from the coast by the unreasoning hatred of the other refugees?

Yes, they followed the demons, servants of Krashnark, but do they follow the Dark Gods, or were they doing it just from terror of the demons. Ala the Hradrani in Kontovar, they also may be unwilling servants of the dark gods.

Even without any meddling by the gods, they certainly have all the reason ever needed to hate all Sothoii and Hradrani.

SYED wrote:That attempt to wipe out the ghouls by the forces of Sothoi, was the act of one country to deal with a threat to their border security.
Any new expeditions to deal with them, would be backed by the Hradani confederation as well as the military forces of the orders of the gods, as now the ghouls represent a threat to the whole of orfressa and that entire universe. SO a good chance that the god's champion would gather to deal with such a threat. Also, due to treaty and the threat of the dark gods, the empire of the axe and the dwarven forces would assist and are sure to help build fortifications to allow the area to be fully pacified and watched over.
Also, the order of semkirk and wencit would be eager to assist.
Its the sheer scale of the forces that would seek to deal with the ghouls once and for all
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Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by cralkhi   » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:07 pm

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Are we ever told what's in the Forest of the Sharmi that's so terrible and/or what 'the Sharmi' are? Some sort of monsters, apparently ("things worse than any troll or ghoul"), but...

Do you think they'll show up in later books?
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Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by SYED   » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:59 am

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after the death of their gods, would the ghouls ever stop running? They are primitives, but still exceptional scaary event did happen. THey are likely to run straight through that forest to the other side.

If the purple lords are hlping the evil wizards, I wonder if they are the reason the ghouls returned, they with the evil wizrds help to replenish its members. Ghouls were the result of magic after all,
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Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by RHWoodman   » Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:43 pm

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cralkhi wrote:Are we ever told what's in the Forest of the Sharmi that's so terrible and/or what 'the Sharmi' are? Some sort of monsters, apparently ("things worse than any troll or ghoul"), but...

Do you think they'll show up in later books?


I'm reasonably sure that some fell creatures from the Sharmi will show up in future books. I don't recall ever being told explicitly what is in the Forest of Sharmi, just statements to the effect that it's much, much worse than any sane person wants to face ... ever.
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Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by RHWoodman   » Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:46 pm

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SYED wrote:after the death of their gods, would the ghouls ever stop running? They are primitives, but still exceptional scaary event did happen. THey are likely to run straight through that forest to the other side.

If the purple lords are hlping the evil wizards, I wonder if they are the reason the ghouls returned, they with the evil wizrds help to replenish its members. Ghouls were the result of magic after all,


The ghouls multiply at amazing rates. They don't need, so far as I know, any wizardry to replenish their numbers. They will repopulate the moor again unless steps are taken to exterminate them. Unfortunately, as FriarBob pointed out, that's probably an undertaking that is beyond the ability of the Sothoii at this point in time, given the impending renewal of the war with the forces of the Dark God.
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Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by SYED   » Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:36 pm

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It was only the sothoi forces of west riding involved. What about crown, south, east and north forces? There are war maids to call upon. Offer the area up to warmaid towns.
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Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by rustynut   » Sun Aug 05, 2012 12:04 am

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Just an off the cuff thought - get the Dwarf's to build the "Great Wall of Hangnysti" a mile or two inland from the river, won't eliminate Ghoul attacks but should make them extremely rare.

I should think even Ghouls would have trouble climbing a 20-30 foot high perfectly smooth stone wall.

Start with the Forts & extend out perhaps. Would take like forever to build but it seems the Ghouls will still be around for a long time.
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Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by SYED   » Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:22 pm

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If the forest of shami so dangerous, create a wall to cordon it off.

At the very least ensure no villages are allowed to retyrn.
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Re: Spoilers: After WMC's epilogue
Post by RHWoodman   » Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:15 pm

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rustynut wrote:Just an off the cuff thought - get the Dwarf's to build the "Great Wall of Hangnysti" a mile or two inland from the river, won't eliminate Ghoul attacks but should make them extremely rare.

I should think even Ghouls would have trouble climbing a 20-30 foot high perfectly smooth stone wall.

Start with the Forts & extend out perhaps. Would take like forever to build but it seems the Ghouls will still be around for a long time.


The Dwarves may not be willing to risk their stone workers (I'm not going to attempt to spell the proper Dwarven name for them). You'd need a significant armed force to protect all of the people building the wall and the stone workers who fuse the stone into a single, smooth wall.

Besides, who says ghouls can't figure out how to build and use scaling ladders? Twenty or thirty feet may be a bit on the short side.
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