Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Hypersonic missile

For anyone who might want to have a side conversation...you're welcome here!
Hypersonic missile
Post by cthia   » Sat Mar 19, 2022 10:07 pm

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 14945
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

Russia claims to have used hypersonic missiles on Ukraine. The US is scheduled to test its version soon.

Is this new technology a game changer, or a weapon looking for a mission? Time sensitive strikes seem to be its one mission so says some analysts.

In a non nuclear war, they seem to yield an advantage.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: Hypersonic missile
Post by Joat42   » Sun Mar 20, 2022 1:38 am

Joat42
Admiral

Posts: 2056
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:01 am
Location: Sweden

cthia wrote:Russia claims to have used hypersonic missiles on Ukraine. The US is scheduled to test its version soon.

Is this new technology a game changer, or a weapon looking for a mission? Time sensitive strikes seem to be its one mission so says some analysts.

In a non nuclear war, they seem to yield an advantage.

The US has experimented with hypersonic missiles for a very long time now but so far they haven't managed to produce something that works except the X-51 prototype vehicle which was 12 years ago.

And time sensitive strikes seems like a good fit, but there's also the fact that it's harder to stop.

I'm ambivalent about how much of an advantage it gives, in most situations conventional missiles works just fine, plus they are probably much cheaper and readily available in numbers that can saturate most defenses. I guess we'll find out in time, unfortunately.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
Top
Re: Hypersonic missile
Post by Daryl   » Sun Mar 20, 2022 5:53 am

Daryl
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 3376
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:57 am
Location: Queensland Australia

Hypersonic means much faster than speed of sound. At 5760 kph the WW2 V2 rocket would qualify. As it was used militarily in 1944, it predates the Russian stuff.
Not as accurate, and a higher trajectory, but a ton of amatol was destructive.
Top
Re: Hypersonic missile
Post by Joat42   » Sun Mar 20, 2022 12:19 pm

Joat42
Admiral

Posts: 2056
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:01 am
Location: Sweden

Daryl wrote:Hypersonic means much faster than speed of sound. At 5760 kph the WW2 V2 rocket would qualify. As it was used militarily in 1944, it predates the Russian stuff.
Not as accurate, and a higher trajectory, but a ton of amatol was destructive.

Hypersonic is generally defined as traveling at Mach 5 or higher fairly low in the atmosphere (< 10km or 33.000ft), the V2 rocket was a ballistic trajectory missile that went to the edge of space before returning which doesn't make it a hypersonic missile regardless of it's terminal velocity.

The difference here is that a hypersonic missile cruise at high speeds while a ballistic missile reaches high terminal velocity by falling.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
Top
Re: Hypersonic missile
Post by Arol   » Sun Mar 20, 2022 3:09 pm

Arol
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 374
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:55 pm
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Maybe the simple answer is that they are running low conventional versions of their Precision Guided Missiles in the immediate battle area. It’s no big secret that their logistics is abysmal.
So using a state-of-the-art hypersonic version is a way of keeping up the impetus of their attack.
Whatever reason, on one of the war tracking sites, a poster noted that NATO reconnaissance, satellites would have been able to observe the missiles trajectory from start to impact, and as such been able to pick up some worthwhile info regarding capabilities
Top
Re: Hypersonic missile
Post by Joat42   » Sun Mar 20, 2022 8:24 pm

Joat42
Admiral

Posts: 2056
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:01 am
Location: Sweden

Arol wrote:Maybe the simple answer is that they are running low conventional versions of their Precision Guided Missiles in the immediate battle area. It’s no big secret that their logistics is abysmal.
So using a state-of-the-art hypersonic version is a way of keeping up the impetus of their attack.

I don't think so, I think they are using Ukraine as a testbed for new weapons - just like they did in Syria.

Consider that this was just one strike of many.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
Top
Re: Hypersonic missile
Post by Arol   » Sun Mar 20, 2022 9:33 pm

Arol
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 374
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:55 pm
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Joat42 wrote:
Arol wrote:Maybe the simple answer is that they are running low conventional versions of their Precision Guided Missiles in the immediate battle area. It’s no big secret that their logistics is abysmal.
So using a state-of-the-art hypersonic version is a way of keeping up the impetus of their attack.

I don't think so, I think they are using Ukraine as a testbed for new weapons - just like they did in Syria.

Consider that this was just one strike of many.

Makes sense!
Take it a step further, testbed yes, but also a chance to show off their latest toys both to potential customers, and potential and present enemies.
Top
Re: Hypersonic missile
Post by Mote   » Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:23 am

Mote
Midshipman

Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:42 am

These missiles are supposed to be one of their primary weapons for penetrating nato air defences and closing off the Atlantic.

One would think they'd have a damn good reason (in their own minds, at least) for showing off their capabilities to every ground radar and awac that's been sent to eastern Europe, for the tech analysts to salivate over.
Top
Re: Hypersonic missile
Post by The E   » Mon Mar 21, 2022 5:39 am

The E
Admiral

Posts: 2661
Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 1:28 pm
Location: Meerbusch, Germany

Joat42 wrote:I don't think so, I think they are using Ukraine as a testbed for new weapons - just like they did in Syria.

Consider that this was just one strike of many.


I don't think they are. The fighting in Ukraine, which is now in the third week of a projected 4 day war, has exposed the enormous fragility of russian logistics - In Syria, Russia could do live-fire testing because Syria was nowhere near a peer adversary, whereas Ukraine absolutely is.
IMHO, the use of these hypersonic weapons seems to be more of an attempt to keep up the facade of russian supremacy: What they are trying to say, essentially, is "we are still holding back", which on one hand, duh, of course they are since there haven't been any attempts to level Ukraine via mass bombing or nuclear strikes, but on the other.... you gotta figure that lobbing a cruise missile or ten fired from safe positions is not really a statement of strength but rather an admission of being incapable of driving a tank column into Kyiv to round up Zelenskyy.

Bottom line is that Russia is running out of precision strike munitions. Their use of these highly advanced weapons against targets that are somewhat inconsequential just to keep up appearances isn't going to really change the stalemate this war is currently in, and in the meantime, Ukraine is still getting shipments of ATGMs, munitions, gear and even volunteers daily. I am somewhat optimistic that the momentum of this war is going to shift in Ukraine's favour pretty soon.
Top
Re: Hypersonic missile
Post by Daryl   » Tue Mar 22, 2022 12:11 am

Daryl
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 3376
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:57 am
Location: Queensland Australia

News always needs to be vetted cynically, but I saw what looked like a "Golden BB" event.
A Ukrainian APC took out a Russian MBT with its 30mm. Rapid use of automated fire, followed by smoke and explosions.
Top

Return to Free-Range Topics...