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How Charis 'MIGHT' react to the Testament of Scheuler.

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Re: How Charis 'MIGHT' react to the Testament of Scheuler.
Post by thanatos   » Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:21 pm

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MWW has all but confirmed that the Last Testament of Schueler is what they referred to a "Operation Androcles". Yet I doubt Cayleb would release such a letter, at least initially, because they don't have to. They have 3 different sources that deviate from the official church line to choose from and can take a more gradual approach. First, you reveal the Sisterhood of Saint Kohdy and the evidence that supports that something fishy was going on in the War Against the Fallen, with Nynian going public with what they know and a willingness to allow the Church to examine the Tomb and the Diary (under the watchful eye of Merlin). Then Paityr returns to Zion with the Stone and the Key, thus revealing what his family knew all this time. Only then does Staynair and the Brethren reveal what they know, after several years and seeing how people handle each stage of the revelation.
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Re: How Charis 'MIGHT' react to the Testament of Scheuler.
Post by Jeslis   » Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:43 am

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Then Paityr returns to Zion with the Stone and the Key


That sounds like a great way to turn something on that we don't want turned on. Maybe as a last resort.
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Re: How Charis 'MIGHT' react to the Testament of Scheuler.
Post by jtg452   » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:09 am

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Jeslis wrote:
That sounds like a great way to turn something on that we don't want turned on. Maybe as a last resort.

Still more likely than the Sisterhood stepping into the light- much less releasing any of Senjin Kohdy's writings ( the most controversial of which aren't understandable on Safehold since they don't know Spanish). Let's not forget that the Mother Superior of the Sisterhood is only known in Church circles by the reputation she built being the "Mother Superior" of a high end brothel and her hooking up with Merlin since the end of the war isn't going to help her rep either.

The Stone of Scheuler going back to the Temple is gonna happen eventually- that plot point has been plain since Petyr's defection to Charis and his entrance into the inner circle after his father and uncle were killed. All that's up in the air is the exact circumstances and what happens when the Stone is used.
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Re: How Charis 'MIGHT' react to the Testament of Scheuler.
Post by knome   » Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:31 am

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I'm imagining a massive collaborative effort between the Church and Charis to determine the validity of the Testament of Schuler.

I'm picturing Charis airlifting in the most cutting edge in scientific and diagnostic equipment to 'help' prove or disprove the validity of the documents.

I'm sure the Church will be taken aback by just how much effort Charis will put into testing them. It will probably kickstart an entirely new wave of innovations as people scramble to find new methods to validate the documents.

In fact, in their desperation to find an answer, who knows how many innovations the church might find itself sponsor too.
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Re: How Charis 'MIGHT' react to the Testament of Scheuler.
Post by ecortez   » Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:34 pm

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I think the exact sequence of events is less important than the fact that there are conflicting sources of truth. Remember that there has always been one carefully crafted narrative, backed up seemingly everywhere. Now the Church has been split and the Temple is no longer seen as an infallible institution immune to error. Doing the same to the Writ loosens the grip of orthodoxy. Whichever side someone ends up on, they're going to be forced to think about what they believe - perhaps for the first time in their lives.

The Satanic mantle being lifted from Shan-Wei and placed onto Chihiro turns a very fundamental article of faith upside down. It would be like telling Christians Jesus was evil and Lucifer was the true messiah and the genuine son of God. Some would embrace the new revelation while others would rail against what they viewed as heresy. The artificially perfect facade of the COGA can never return though. As as more and more Safeholdians are born into an industrialized world with a technological mindset, they will become more willing to question whether the Writ, Scheuler's Testimony, or any other set of scriptures is telling the truth.

Certain knowledge, like the fact that the stars are other suns, presumably with other planets circling them, will be introduced by Charis (although not necessarily from Charis, it's important ideas originate from all over Safehold). Perhaps Owl will produce an edited War of the Worlds novel, replacing locations on Earth with the names of towns somewhere on Safehold. Fiction that will prepare the population to hear the story of the Federation. It helps when major concepts have already been introduced in other contexts so you're not throwing a hundred completely new ideas at people all at once.

Earth is another planet. Humans traveled from there to Safehold. They've heard this kind of stuff before. Whether or not a given person believes you, at least they understand what you're saying. The Inner Circle rejection rate will drop quite low as time goes on, even for poorly vetted candidates. You wait until the majority of the population is likely to accept it before you unload the full truth on them. It's good that they have plenty of time now. They can do it properly instead of having to rush things to beat a deadline.

No matter what the return of the Archangels entails, you can't take a society of people who understand the concepts of space travel and other solar systems and force them back into primitive modes of thought. It just doesn't work.
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Re: How Charis 'MIGHT' react to the Testament of Scheuler.
Post by isaac_newton   » Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:42 am

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knome wrote:I'm imagining a massive collaborative effort between the Church and Charis to determine the validity of the Testament of Schuler.

I'm picturing Charis airlifting in the most cutting edge in scientific and diagnostic equipment to 'help' prove or disprove the validity of the documents.

I'm sure the Church will be taken aback by just how much effort Charis will put into testing them. It will probably kickstart an entirely new wave of innovations as people scramble to find new methods to validate the documents.

In fact, in their desperation to find an answer, who knows how many innovations the church might find itself sponsor too.


Hmmmmm - exactly what level of tech could Charis use that would not violate the current 'rules' in a really dramatic way, and thus prove Charis to be a nest of demons???
What 300 or even 150 year old tech could we use to prove a document to be a forgery?
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Re: How Charis 'MIGHT' react to the Testament of Scheuler.
Post by phillies   » Fri Oct 01, 2021 2:26 pm

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isaac_newton wrote:
knome wrote:I'm imagining a massive collaborative effort between the Church and Charis to determine the validity of the Testament of Schuler.

I'm picturing Charis airlifting in the most cutting edge in scientific and diagnostic equipment to 'help' prove or disprove the validity of the documents.

I'm sure the Church will be taken aback by just how much effort Charis will put into testing them. It will probably kickstart an entirely new wave of innovations as people scramble to find new methods to validate the documents.

In fact, in their desperation to find an answer, who knows how many innovations the church might find itself sponsor too.


Hmmmmm - exactly what level of tech could Charis use that would not violate the current 'rules' in a really dramatic way, and thus prove Charis to be a nest of demons???
What 300 or even 150 year old tech could we use to prove a document to be a forgery?


Linguistic analysis. Cf the Donation of Constantine.
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Re: How Charis 'MIGHT' react to the Testament of Scheuler.
Post by Dilandu   » Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:27 am

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phillies wrote:
Linguistic analysis. Cf the Donation of Constantine.


Would prove nothing in Safehold situation, because the Shuller is assumed to be a supernatural being, and therefore could have its own logic over linquistic.
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Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: How Charis 'MIGHT' react to the Testament of Scheuler.
Post by Robert_A_Woodward   » Sun Oct 03, 2021 1:34 am

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Dilandu wrote:
phillies wrote:
Linguistic analysis. Cf the Donation of Constantine.


Would prove nothing in Safehold situation, because the Shuller is assumed to be a supernatural being, and therefore could have its own logic over linquistic.


Well, yes. But it would be odd if the "Testimony" had words that did not appear in the Holy Writ or had meanings not used there.
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Beowulf was bad.
(first sentence of Chapter VI of _Space Viking_ by H. Beam Piper)
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Re: How Charis 'MIGHT' react to the Testament of Scheuler.
Post by knome   » Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:01 pm

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isaac_newton wrote:
knome wrote:I'm imagining a massive collaborative effort between the Church and Charis to determine the validity of the Testament of Schuler.

I'm picturing Charis airlifting in the most cutting edge in scientific and diagnostic equipment to 'help' prove or disprove the validity of the documents.

I'm sure the Church will be taken aback by just how much effort Charis will put into testing them. It will probably kickstart an entirely new wave of innovations as people scramble to find new methods to validate the documents.

In fact, in their desperation to find an answer, who knows how many innovations the church might find itself sponsor too.


Hmmmmm - exactly what level of tech could Charis use that would not violate the current 'rules' in a really dramatic way, and thus prove Charis to be a nest of demons???
What 300 or even 150 year old tech could we use to prove a document to be a forgery?


I was thinking microscopes. Maybe they could do an analysis of the material and compare it to the original testaments.

Charis probably has the best lense crafting in the world, and their educational institutes probably already have them available.
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