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Emily's second child

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Re: Emily's second child
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:02 pm

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Brigade XO wrote:Thank you.

Katherine and her twin are Honor's sibs and now 2nd and 3rd respectivly in-line for the Steadholdership after Raoul (who is a child of her body)


You're confusing Faith with Katherine. It doesn't help that Faith's second name is Katherine, both of whom were named after Katherine Mayview, Protector Benjamin's first wife.

Faith Katherine Honor Stephanie Miranda Harrington and her twin (James Andrew Benjamin Harrington, also "named after the local potentate") are Honor's siblings. Katherine Allison Miranda Alexander-Harrinigton is a legal child of Honor's. I maintain that Faith and James are respectively currently 3rd and 4th in line to the Steadholdership, after Raoul and Katherine.

Emily's child (with Hamish even if it invert) is NOT inline for the Steadholdreship.....that child would be an heir to Hamish's title but very unlikely to ever even come up in conversation as being so as it will not in any direct way in the bloodline of Honor as the Steadholder.


I disagree. My argument is based on the fact that legally Katherine and Raoul have the same rights of inheritance for most things and only differ in age, in both Manticore and Grayson. The third child would be the same. Whether the Steadholdership is included in that we'll need to get the legal opinion from Weber & Associates LLP, but I don't see why it wouldn't.

Though there are known differences: currently, the steadholdership passes to male heirs first (male-preference primogeniture). But inheritance laws in Grayson have already changed once in the last 15 T-years, so they may change again.

We discussed this before in the Raoul/Katherine Inheritance thread.

That Raoul is both the 1st child of Hamish and of Hamish and Honor does put him in like for the Alexander title as well as Steadholder but I expect that- presuming the Alexander title passes to either sex.


You mean White Haven Earldom title. Alexander is just a surname. Yes, officially Raoul inherits all the titles in absence of a legally-binding will determining otherwise. Again all of this discussed in the "Raoul/Katherine Inheritance" thread.
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Re: Emily's second child
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:06 am

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How about they just have children because they want to have children rather than for any political or financial considerations? Taking care of babies is almost as much fun as making them.
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Re: Emily's second child
Post by PeterZ   » Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:16 am

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Here is why I think the child will be "of her body" as the grayson succession laws demand. If she both gives birth to that child and her DNA is incorporated into that child, that child will be heir to both Harrington and White Haven.
Brigade XO wrote:I guess I missed something. Emily's 2nd child? Did she lose her first?

ThinksMarkedly wrote:No, that first was Katherine, Raoul's younger sibling by a few months, so the second child of the Honor-Hamish-Emily marriage. Emily's second is the trio's third.

Fox2! wrote:I expect Honor will have a second of her own, to be the "spare" for her Duchy and Steading.
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Re: Emily's second child
Post by PeterZ   » Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:17 am

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Oh, they'll do that too!

My thought was that Emily wanted to leave her beloved spouses with a special legacy.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:How about they just have children because they want to have children rather than for any political or financial considerations? Taking care of babies is almost as much fun as making them.
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Re: Emily's second child
Post by SharkHunter   » Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:37 pm

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--small quick clip--, and me just guessing...
That Raoul is both the 1st child of Hamish and of Hamish and Honor does put him in like for the Alexander title as well as Steadholder but I expect that- presuming the Alexander title passes to either sex.
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We would need much more on Manticorian Law and questions of succession to make that judgment. Just one more set of complications for various politicians to get their underwear in a twist about. :)
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My guess is probably that relative to the Earlship, they probably worked out for Honor's children to be Morganic (not inheriting), in the same way that Hamish's other are non-inheriting in the Steadholdership.... and then have a clause that would be the exception of all other heirs dying. I don't think Honor would accept anything else in terms of her love and respect for both Hamish and Emily.
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All my posts are YMMV, IMHO, and welcoming polite discussion, extension, and rebuttal. This is the HonorVerse, after all
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Re: Emily's second child
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:41 pm

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SharkHunter wrote:--small quick clip--, and me just guessing...
That Raoul is both the 1st child of Hamish and of Hamish and Honor does put him in like for the Alexander title as well as Steadholder but I expect that- presuming the Alexander title passes to either sex.


White Haven title.

We know Manticoran titles do, quod vide Countess Gold Peak (Michelle Henke), Baroness Low Delhi (Sonja Hemphill), Baroness/Countess Mourncreek (Francine Maurier, First Lord of the Admiralty). And specifically for the White Haven case, we know one of Hamish's ancestors was Karina Alexander, Third Countess White Haven.

Not to mention, you know... one certain Elizabeth Adrienne Samantha Annette Winton, who inherited ahead of her younger brother the titles of Queen of Manticore and Princess Protector of the Realm, along with a handful of earldoms and baronies (she was already Grand Duchess of Basilisk since her 1st birthday).

We also know that inheritance laws in Grayson were recently modified to allow women to inherit. Steadholder titles do still go to the male heirs first.

We would need much more on Manticorian Law and questions of succession to make that judgment. Just one more set of complications for various politicians to get their underwear in a twist about. :)


I don't think there's any question in Manticoran law who would inherit, in absence of any other stipulations. What we don't know is if the parents can decide on their wills or before their deaths to pass the titles to an child that is not the oldest. We suspect that Katherine would become Fourteenth Countess White Haven and Raoul the Second Duke Harrington and Steadholder Harrington. The third child we have no clue yet, but Elizabeth can create a barony for her or give one of hers. Or it'll turn up that either Hamish or Emily had a lesser title.

My guess is probably that relative to the Earlship, they probably worked out for Honor's children to be Morganic (not inheriting), in the same way that Hamish's other are non-inheriting in the Steadholdership.... and then have a clause that would be the exception of all other heirs dying. I don't think Honor would accept anything else in terms of her love and respect for both Hamish and Emily.


I've already disagreed with the steadholdership inheritance. I also disagree with trying to apply Morganatic marriage customs. since the children carrying Emily's genes are still lawful heirs of Honor's. Specifically, they were not born before the marriage.

But I do agree that Hamish and Honor would make a stipulation of some sort.
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Re: Emily's second child
Post by drothgery   » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:29 pm

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:I don't think there's any question in Manticoran law who would inherit, in absence of any other stipulations. What we don't know is if the parents can decide on their wills or before their deaths to pass the titles to an child that is not the oldest.

I believe RFC has explicitly said they cannot, though I'm much too lazy to dig up the quote.
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