Guns, Guns Guns

Daryl might remember it, Australia's last open carry law was removed rrom the books in the 1980's. Turned out 90% of the people making use of it were criminals.

Joat42 wrote:

doug941 wrote:Several serum studies have been done in California, both in the Bay Area and in the L.A. metro area, both of which show the rates of infection are actually millions higher than the official numbers. This kicks the infection/death ratio down to under 1%.
Many of the protestors are simply saying that the governments are NOT going to be allowed to bankrupt their businesses. Since the governments are not compensating the businesses owners for their loses, they are saying "Get the Hell out of our way so we can make a living."

A simple question, is one mans business more important than the possible death of another person?

I hate to say it but taken to the extremes some health experts want, then the answer is YES. As I said earlier, the answers to this pandemic are limited to two things Vaccine and herd immunity. Many experts are saying the time for a vaccine to be designed, tested and then fielded is anywhere from 9-18 months. Herd immunity CAN NOT be reached when a significant percentage of the population either never or rarely leave their homes. If the siege mentality continues for this 9-18 months, the misery it causes WILL be greater than the misery not continuing will cause. And since something over 20% of COVID deaths are people 80 or older, simply do not throw open the doors of retirement/nursing homes. Nobody is proposing making you leave your home, simply giving you the choice.

Herd immunity may not be possible. There is some new research indicating that people can catch the same variant more than once. If so our only hope is to develop specific antiviral medicines, and take them regardless.

doug941 wrote:I hate to say it but taken to the extremes some health experts want, then the answer is YES. As I said earlier, the answers to this pandemic are limited to two things Vaccine and herd immunity. Many experts are saying the time for a vaccine to be designed, tested and then fielded is anywhere from 9-18 months. Herd immunity CAN NOT be reached when a significant percentage of the population either never or rarely leave their homes. If the siege mentality continues for this 9-18 months, the misery it causes WILL be greater than the misery not continuing will cause. And since something over 20% of COVID deaths are people 80 or older, simply do not throw open the doors of retirement/nursing homes. Nobody is proposing making you leave your home, simply giving you the choice.

It is a balancing act where the wrong choice lead to more deaths in the end. I'm sure it can be modeled somewhat accurately, but that depends on people being reasonable and not behaving in illogical and stupid ways - for which I don't have a very high confidence in.

[quote="Daryl"]This response just reinforces my point. Carrying military style weapons in the street would be illegal virtually anywhere else. Saying that they weren't breaking the law may technically excuse them, but not their society.
I can remember fifty years ago going into our country town to shop with a rifle in a gun rack behind the seat of my ute (pickup). However it was a farming tool, and even then if I'd pulled it out I would have been arrested. "Going armed in public so as to cause fear" is a significant offence in this country.

When I was growing up, it was EXTREMELY common for people to have a rifle and/or shotgun in plain sight on a rack by the rear window of their pickup. These could be farmers, hunters or just someone who kept a gun handy. NO ONE was frightened as a result. The crime rate was low that fee people even bothered to lock their pickup to keep thieves from stealing their guns.

Times have changed. I now keep a Glock with multiple 33 round clips in a quick access lock box bolted in a discreet but accessible location and a semiautomatic rifle with multiple 30 round clips in another, even more discreet location. I often carry a compact pistol concealed. So far I haven't committed any mass murders. It would be I interesting to see what would happen if someone else started shooting people in my presence. I was actually prepared to shoot a lunatic who was armed with an AR-15 in a school yard. Then the TV camera crews showed up. He was a candidate for Congress doing a photo opportunity to promote gun control. He wasn't even a legal resident of the state. He wasn't eligible to run for the office. It also wasn't legal for him to buy the rifle because it was banned in DC where he actually lived. It was a Federal Felony for him to send a campaign aid off to the local gun store to do a straw man purchase for him.

It would have been interesting to see the news coverage of I had shot him while the cameras were talking. This was not long after a mass shooting incident so I could have claimed that he was a threat.

Joat42 wrote:

doug941 wrote:I hate to say it but taken to the extremes some health experts want, then the answer is YES. As I said earlier, the answers to this pandemic are limited to two things Vaccine and herd immunity. Many experts are saying the time for a vaccine to be designed, tested and then fielded is anywhere from 9-18 months. Herd immunity CAN NOT be reached when a significant percentage of the population either never or rarely leave their homes. If the siege mentality continues for this 9-18 months, the misery it causes WILL be greater than the misery not continuing will cause. And since something over 20% of COVID deaths are people 80 or older, simply do not throw open the doors of retirement/nursing homes. Nobody is proposing making you leave your home, simply giving you the choice.

It is a balancing act where the wrong choice lead to more deaths in the end. I'm sure it can be modeled somewhat accurately, but that depends on people being reasonable and not behaving in illogical and stupid ways - for which I don't have a very high confidence in.

The US is starting to see food supply issues looming, and various so-called "Third world nations" have seen them already starting. How many people dying of hunger and/or preventable medical conditions would you feel are acceptable before you would allow anyone out of their homes?

Joat42 wrote:

doug941 wrote:I hate to say it but taken to the extremes some health experts want, then the answer is YES. As I said earlier, the answers to this pandemic are limited to two things Vaccine and herd immunity. Many experts are saying the time for a vaccine to be designed, tested and then fielded is anywhere from 9-18 months. Herd immunity CAN NOT be reached when a significant percentage of the population either never or rarely leave their homes. If the siege mentality continues for this 9-18 months, the misery it causes WILL be greater than the misery not continuing will cause. And since something over 20% of COVID deaths are people 80 or older, simply do not throw open the doors of retirement/nursing homes. Nobody is proposing making you leave your home, simply giving you the choice.

It is a balancing act where the wrong choice lead to more deaths in the end. I'm sure it can be modeled somewhat accurately, but that depends on people being reasonable and not behaving in illogical and stupid ways - for which I don't have a very high confidence in.

doug941 wrote:The US is starting to see food supply issues looming, and various so-called "Third world nations" have seen them already starting. How many people dying of hunger and/or preventable medical conditions would you feel are acceptable before you would allow anyone out of their homes?

How many people dying of preventable medical conditions would you feel are acceptable due to all hospital beds being occupied by COVID-19 cases?

Perhaps you didn't understood what I wrote, but I thought 'It is a balancing act' was pretty clear that you have to balance all the factors - and that includes lifting the restrictions when it makes sense.

From Fly;

When I was growing up, it was EXTREMELY common for people to have a rifle and/or shotgun in plain sight on a rack by the rear window of their pickup. These could be farmers, hunters or just someone who kept a gun handy. NO ONE was frightened as a result. The crime rate was low that fee people even bothered to lock their pickup to keep thieves from stealing their guns.

Times have changed. I now keep a Glock with multiple 33 round clips in a quick access lock box bolted in a discreet but accessible location and a semiautomatic rifle with multiple 30 round clips in another, even more discreet location. I often carry a compact pistol concealed.

Back 50+ years ago if I had picked up a rifle from my rack and walked up the street I would have been arrested immediately. Converting a common farm tool, into a deadly weapon in a town would have been taken seriously.

In my current society the very thought of needing to have a single firearm for personal protection is laughable. What's the figure? Per million people, the US has 29 times the firearm death rate of Australia. Not twice or even three times, but 29. Can't all be from black Chicago gang warfare.

Daryl wrote:From Fly;

When I was growing up, it was EXTREMELY common for people to have a rifle and/or shotgun in plain sight on a rack by the rear window of their pickup. These could be farmers, hunters or just someone who kept a gun handy. NO ONE was frightened as a result. The crime rate was low that fee people even bothered to lock their pickup to keep thieves from stealing their guns.

Times have changed. I now keep a Glock with multiple 33 round clips in a quick access lock box bolted in a discreet but accessible location and a semiautomatic rifle with multiple 30 round clips in another, even more discreet location. I often carry a compact pistol concealed.

Back 50+ years ago if I had picked up a rifle from my rack and walked up the street I would have been arrested immediately. Converting a common farm tool, into a deadly weapon in a town would have been taken seriously.

In my current society the very thought of needing to have a single firearm for personal protection is laughable. What's the figure? Per million people, the US has 29 times the firearm death rate of Australia. Not twice or even three times, but 29. Can't all be from black Chicago gang warfare.

I haven't owned a gun in over 40 years. I really don't feel a need for one. We feel safe here. It would be fun to acquire a 22 to bang away at paper targets. But I haven't been sufficiently motivated to accomplish even that much.

Don

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Daryl wrote:From Fly;

When I was growing up, it was EXTREMELY common for people to have a rifle and/or shotgun in plain sight on a rack by the rear window of their pickup. These could be farmers, hunters or just someone who kept a gun handy. NO ONE was frightened as a result. The crime rate was low that fee people even bothered to lock their pickup to keep thieves from stealing their guns.

Times have changed. I now keep a Glock with multiple 33 round clips in a quick access lock box bolted in a discreet but accessible location and a semiautomatic rifle with multiple 30 round clips in another, even more discreet location. I often carry a compact pistol concealed.

Back 50+ years ago if I had picked up a rifle from my rack and walked up the street I would have been arrested immediately. Converting a common farm tool, into a deadly weapon in a town would have been taken seriously.

In my current society the very thought of needing to have a single firearm for personal protection is laughable. What's the figure? Per million people, the US has 29 times the firearm death rate of Australia. Not twice or even three times, but 29. Can't all be from black Chicago gang warfare.

Easily available ranking of Homicide rates here:

https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indica ... 5/rankings

US Homicide rate is 5.3 per 100,000
Australia Homicide rate is .8 per 100,000.

About 1/2 of US homicides are committed by Blacks and another 1/4 are committed by illegal alien Hispanics.

Americans were not as tenacious as Australians in there efforts to exterminate the native people's and Australia imported its defacto slaves from great Britain rather than Africa.

A valid comparison is about 1.7 vs .8.