Time to read THE LAST CENTURION?

Daryl wrote:Apparently the term "Eurotrash" applies to Western Europeans, and others like Brits, New Zealanders and Australians.
After years of interpreting these pages I think I am beginnning to understand. A certain demographic of US Citizens think that way, and for extra inclusion they also count US Liberals in that category.
We tend to call them modern citizens of fully developed societies, but to a US redneck or "deplorable" they are Eurotrash, or even worse, socialists.

Living in the middle of it at least to some extent, I would say that at the core of what we have here is fear. Fear of government, foreigners, ethnic minorities, and perhaps most of all, fear of change.

I remember back at seminary, one of the profs made Alvin Toffler's "Future Shock" required reading. Toffler describes a world people are mobile and isolated from extended family. Values are constantly shifting as the familiar signposts are swept away. People in this world are scrambling for something familiar to hang on to.

We're living it out right now. That fear is for some the dominate element in how they view the world and we see it reflected in some posts on this thread.

Don

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:So much for President Trump being full of shit about alternative drugs to treat the Chinvirus.

http://abc3340.com/news/nation-world/13 ... n-facility

All right, all together now:

Correlation does not equal causation.

At this point no-one knows whether HCQ is effective or not, as the medical professionals have pointed out (despite Trump blocking Fauci from answering the question). And even if by dumb luck Trump us correct about it being useful as a treatment, there us AFAIK no evidence of it being useful as a prophylactic. On the other hand, it does have some serious possible side effects, some of which can be lethal.

In the meantime, he's also been touting Zpak as a prophylactic. Problem is, it's an antibiotic, and as such is useless unless you get COVID and develop secondary infections. Taking it preventitively does nothing except harm your gut flira and promote the evokution of antibiotic-resistant bscteria.

Now this is priceless:

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/coronav ... vid-bossie

And here is June Cleaver to translate for us.

https://youtu.be/fXSLcYQHqFQ

clancy688 wrote:

TFLYTSNBN wrote:You once again refuse to understand the significance of rates rather than raw numbers.

I'm not sure whether you're pretending to not understand these screenshots on purpose or are just dense. Since one should never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, I'll go with the latter.

Either way, any of the two posts you're referring to is about rates, not raw numbers. It's very clear that the growth rates of the US are way, way worse than the growth rates of any other COVID-19 country. This is very easily to be seen by the steeper gradient of the US curve, as compared to the much flatter gradient of the European curves. COVID-19 seems to spread four times as fast in the US as it ever did in any European country.

Tbh, this feels a bit like me pointing at the sky and saying "Look, the sky is blue!" and TFLY being like "No, it's obviously green, you retard."

This is just utter bull shit. Here is a reliable, apolitical source of information:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

If you click on the header of the column of infections per million people, it will reorder the table based on infection rate. When I posted this, the US was 21, not #1.

If you want to know what the rate of growth in daily infections is, you will actually have to do the math. You will have to divide new infections by existing infections to calculate the fractional increases.

Of course infection rates are a function of testing. If you don't test, your infection rate is zero. A more accurate measurement is death rates.

When you compare death rates, the US is number 17.

Of course death rates can be influenced by the criteria of attributing deaths. Most Coronavirus related deaths are people who suffer from pre-existing conditions or contract pneumonia as a complication. Different jurisdictions attribute deaths differently.

This isn't my preferred source, but it explains things in a simple manner that even you might be able to understand:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/upsh ... rison.html

Daryl wrote:Apparently the term "Eurotrash" applies to Western Europeans, and others like Brits, New Zealanders and Australians.
After years of interpreting these pages I think I am beginnning to understand. A certain demographic of US Citizens think that way, and for extra inclusion they also count US Liberals in that category.
We tend to call them modern citizens of fully developed societies, but to a US redneck or "deplorable" they are Eurotrash, or even worse, socialists.

You are getting close. Eurotrash are foreigners who presume that they are more enlightened than Americans, or at least American conservatives, and therefore entitled to denigrate Americans. The attitude displays a profound obliviousness and ingratitude for America saving their butts during WW1 and WW2 then during the Cold War. This attitude is accompanied by a presumed right to influence American elections.

The fact that I and so many other American conservatives are willing to use terms such as Eurotrash demonstrates that many Americans are fed up with the arrogance of freeloading foreigners. We understand that the Cold War is over, the Warsaw Pact is no more, and that Russia is not the Soviet Union. We also understand that Eurotrash eagerly aid and abet America's enemies. Eurotrash support nuclear proliferation politically,. economically, and through covert sales of specific technologies. Eurotrash also support China's attempt to dominate the world economically and politically.

Vladimir Putin does these things, but Russia does not presume to be America's enlightened ally that speaks with moral authority. (Even Dilandru understands that Russia is just a thugocracy that is fortunate to have a thug who is trying to save Russians rather than exterminate dissidents.)

Americans who use the term "Eurotrash" also understand that Europeans are attempting to keep America dependant on foreign oil and other products so that America will continue to fight wars to maintain the global order. It isn't going to happen. America's economy is not dependant on global trade. Energy security is National security. An America that has secure energy supplies from North America no longer needs to fight wars to secure middle East oil for the benefit of Eurotrash or Asians (who are generally smart enough to not allienate America with their arrogance.). Americans who use the term "Eurotrash" are also eager to revert to neo-isolationism and allow the Eurotrash to fend for themselves. Maybe Putin or Xi will nuke Europeans into the stone age, maybe not. It is not America's problem. Better for America to remain neutral and maybe admire all of the mushroom clouds on the news.

The Coronavirus is giving the world a lesson on the dangers of globalization. If America had been less involved in global trade, the Chinavirus would not have become established in America before the Flu season was over. Globalization didn't dissuade China from misleading the World Health Organization until it was to late. Globalization has left America dependant on hostile countries for needed supplies. Americans now have a President who understands the need to repatriate manufacturing so that never again will America have to beg other countries for needed medicines or equipment. Consider the probable resurgence of the Coronavirus next year. While Europeans are submitting to President Xi's demands that they perform fellatio on him in return for medical supplies, America will be self sufficient. Maybe America will send surplus supplies to Europe, but probably not.

You know Fly. By now you should have learned to find out what things actually mean.

Annachie wrote:You know Fly. By now you should have learned to find out what things actually mean.

It was quite a story line, wasn't it? TFLY still doesn't get that We're all in this together. If We're all in the same boat, beating each other over the head with the oars is counter productive...

Don

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Thanks fly for confirming my thoughts on where you are coming from.
I disagree with just about everything you said, but it was an illuminating read, and will allow me to converse more directly with you in the future.
As I said your branch of US conservatives has a particular world view. We have some people here with a similar mindset, but they only make up about 5% of our population.

Your use of the "Eurotrash" insult indicates to me that you perceive that the rest of us look down on your cohort, and you are naturally hurt and offended by this.
There is some truth in this, as there are many jokes, memes and stories around about "deplorables". Quite unfair, as there are many brilliant people who think as you do, although there are some memorable dumb ones as well.
A common theme is the perception that the US (particularly your part of it) supports the rest of the world by providing the Pax Americana, reserve currency and stability. As in all things there is some truth in that, but there is also a lot of bull. US arms and aviation industries have made huge profits from arms sales. Many people world wide are rushing to create a vaccine for covid-19 before the US in order to keep the price manageable. The US always puts a profit on whatever they do.

Do I have to point out why what TFLYTSNBN has written actually explains why people have issues with America?

And why do the British not like Donald Trump, well a few things spring to mind ...https://thehobbledehoy.com/2019/03/08/british-writer-pens-the-best-description-of-trump-ive-read/?fbclid=IwAR0Gg32RmHg2mlkX2fJzhuPTfd5XYnmxPx5Y56Cdly1rEjeNHVDE-GGzN6E

Those of you who have been following his twitter feed may also be baffled by his presumption that Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II somehow likes him, to be clear she doesn't.

Her Majesty is both subtle and explicit on a level that vastly exceeds Trump's. For anyone who was paying attention she has made her opinion of him very obvious. On the first day of his last visit to the UK she wore a brooch that was a gift from the Obamas! On the second day she wore a brooch that was a gift from Canada, and in the shape of a snowflake, and on the third day a brooch worn by the Queen Mother at the Funeral of King George VI, so not something that indicates a happy occasion.

So far I have yet to find an American, or at least a Trumpist, who manages to get this.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:You are getting close. Eurotrash are foreigners who presume that they are more enlightened than Americans, or at least American conservatives, and therefore entitled to denigrate Americans. The attitude displays a profound obliviousness and ingratitude for America saving their butts during WW1 and WW2 then during the Cold War. This attitude is accompanied by a presumed right to influence American elections.

There is no end to the amount of gratitude we have for the USA that intervened in WW1 and WW2 and the people who fought in those wars, as well as the leaders who recognized that it is better to turn vanquished foes into strong allies than to leave them beaten and bleeding.

You, TFLY, are not part of either of these categories. You, personally, did not fight in WW2. You, personally, didn't do anything of note. None of the current leadership of the US can make a reasonable claim to the credit the heroes of WW2 and its aftermath deserve; We do owe eternal, personal gratitude to those individuals, not the USA.

Hell, you don't even deserve any credit for being a visible deterrent during the Cold War. That period of history ended 30 years ago; your country changed during that time, and not for the better.

Let me put it to you this way: If you think that what american actions in the 20th Century bought was a "get out of criticism" card, you are badly mistaken. What the US got were allies and friends, and what friends and allies would we be if we weren't willing to intervene and criticise if we see you making stupid decisions and terrible mistakes?

It isn't going to happen. America's economy is not dependant on global trade.

You really believe that, don't you. You can't be both independent of global trade and rich, so which are you going to choose?