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New Hypatian Navy.

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New Hypatian Navy.
Post by Captain Golding   » Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:55 am

Captain Golding
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Imagine in Late August 1922
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Address to Parliament by System President Adam Vangelis.
I am sure this house will agree with me in Giving thanks to Admiral Jan Kotouc and the Royal Manticore Navy for their Sacrifice in protection of our Space Industries and the people still onboard in the face of the Solarian Leagues unwarranted act of aggression. We now have Captain Acworth’s Vukodlak Carrier and 4 RMN Cruisers in place along with 4 SD’s of the Beowulf SDF.

While I am reassured that this fleet and the System Defense Pods being deployed will provide for our immediate protection I am sure that you will agree with me that we should look to ensure our own Defense.

That means raising our own Navy. That means People and Ships. For People I have the Hypatian Patrol and Rescue service setting up a recruitment office to register volunteers and to seek out Hypathian’s with relevant experience.

For ships I would like to order new ones from Manticore – unfortunately their yards have been destroyed and they need what they have. So I have asked our own Yards to recover the remaining SL vessels that were unable to hyper out and surrendered. These are rightly Prizes of HMS Arngrim and so I will instruct our Ambassador to negotiate with the Manticore Admiralty Prize Court for a settlement. While many of these vessels are little more than hulks a few have only a single area of damage and should be well within our capacity to repair using the hulks for spares. This should provide an initial training fleet.
So we will be needing budget for ......
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Who and what do they get? Will they be part of the GA or not ? What ships from the SLN can they repair and MAN! We know from UH that there were at least 17 repairable hulks before Arngrim's salvo took out another BC. We don't know if there were any other vessels unable to hyper out but still battleworthy from the 10 BC's 36 cruisers and 29 destroyers left after the battle.

Unless they join the GA I don't see them getting material or training but they do have a high tech and developed industry. I'm sure they could produce a Star Knight or similar under license but would be unlikly to get even that generation licenses unless they join.

A Navy also needs a culture - if they are dependant on SLN veterans for training then I think the culture would be off to a bad start.

Anyway Discuss. Do you think they can get at least one vessel repaired and manned in time for the Reduction of Sol?

Captain Golding GSN.
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Re: New Hypatian Navy.
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:36 am

ThinksMarkedly
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Captain Golding wrote:Who and what do they get? Will they be part of the GA or not ? What ships from the SLN can they repair and MAN! We know from UH that there were at least 17 repairable hulks before Arngrim's salvo took out another BC. We don't know if there were any other vessels unable to hyper out but still battleworthy from the 10 BC's 36 cruisers and 29 destroyers left after the battle.

Unless they join the GA I don't see them getting material or training but they do have a high tech and developed industry. I'm sure they could produce a Star Knight or similar under license but would be unlikly to get even that generation licenses unless they join.

A Navy also needs a culture - if they are dependant on SLN veterans for training then I think the culture would be off to a bad start.

Anyway Discuss. Do you think they can get at least one vessel repaired and manned in time for the Reduction of Sol?


You have to take into consideration that Hypatia entered into a union with Beowulf, as soon as Beowulf became independent by itself. And there may be more SL systems that joined them on that. So there isn't a Hypatian Navy in isolation, but one that is coordinated with Beowulf and carries the culture of the BSDF.

And they did join the GA.
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Re: New Hypatian Navy.
Post by Jonathan_S   » Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:31 pm

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:You have to take into consideration that Hypatia entered into a union with Beowulf, as soon as Beowulf became independent by itself. And there may be more SL systems that joined them on that. So there isn't a Hypatian Navy in isolation, but one that is coordinated with Beowulf and carries the culture of the BSDF.

And they did join the GA.

The last update I saw on Hypatia's referundum is in the November 1922 Post Diaspora section of UH (page 356 of the .rtf ebook) which was via a conversation in the Sol system
Uncompromising Honor wrote:“I doubt he’s got any new earthshattering revelations, but given Hypatia’s announcement that it’s follow-ing through on that merger with Beowulf—and the rumors we’re hearing that they’re both going to seek admission to the damned ‘Star Empire’—I want to be positive we know exactly where the Navy is on Fabi-us.”
Now it's probably a forgone conclusion that Hypatia's referendum to succeed will pass, and they'll seek merger with Beowulf. But they apparently hadn't as of then.

And I tend to discount the rumor at the end. Certainly Beowulf is part of the GA, and Hypatia mergine or forming alliance with Beowulf would presumable also be. But I don't really see them being quick to give up self-governance to become a direct part of the SEM.


But yes, even allying with Beowulf probably puts them in a position to be cleared, eventually, to purchase and operate the pan-GA Apollo-SD(P)s being constructed at Bolthole and finished at Beowulf.


For a system of similar strength to Hyptia, but not willing or able to join Beowulf and the GA, I'd think Erewhon might be a good source of Naval ships. They're, AFAIK, not part of the GA - simply retaining their mutual defense treaty with Haven - and they're already ramping up towards production of SD(P)s for home use and export sale to Maya. They'd probably be willing to sell them to at least some other ex-League systems. (Though I'm not sure if they're offering true MDMs for widespread export; or if their SD(P)s would come with ERMs)
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Re: New Hypatian Navy.
Post by Erls   » Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:39 pm

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For a system (or systems) that want to be associated with the GA but not full members, there are two options that I can think of for ships: Erewhon and the Andermani.

Erewhon probably has their yards stuffed with orders for the next decade from Maya, so unless buyers want to help pay for the cost of new yards to expedite construction that may not be a great deal.

The other option would be the Andermani. With the Andies sitting out the war against the Sollies, they are still neutrals in that fight. They have near-current gen GA tech, however, and a infrastructure still fully intact.

Note, this could also help reduce future tension with the SEM. Locations that are easily reachable by Durandel-Asgard bridge (through nearby wormholes) could 'naturally' fall within the Andermani zone of influence. This would allow for the Andies to start building relationships that could be pursued longterm for them and help them avoid being "boxed-in" by the SEM.
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Re: New Hypatian Navy.
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:41 pm

TFLYTSNBN

I know of a certain RMN Commander of a ROLLAND that Hypatia would want to recruit.
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Re: New Hypatian Navy.
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:57 pm

ThinksMarkedly
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Jonathan_S wrote:For a system of similar strength to Hyptia, but not willing or able to join Beowulf and the GA, I'd think Erewhon might be a good source of Naval ships. They're, AFAIK, not part of the GA - simply retaining their mutual defense treaty with Haven - and they're already ramping up towards production of SD(P)s for home use and export sale to Maya. They'd probably be willing to sell them to at least some other ex-League systems. (Though I'm not sure if they're offering true MDMs for widespread export; or if their SD(P)s would come with ERMs)


Last we heard, the MARSN and ESN (and presumably the RTN) were still using surplus Manticoran Mark 14 ERMs. They weren't building their own.

But since the SLN and the MAlign have dual-stage Cataphracts, the GA is going to arm their closest allies with at least Mark 16 DDMs. Whether they get pre-Apollo MDMs (Mark 23 A?) or whether they only get Havenite MDMs, I can't say.

The Hypatian-Beowulfan Navy will get the full package.
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Re: New Hypatian Navy.
Post by Theemile   » Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:51 pm

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
Jonathan_S wrote:For a system of similar strength to Hyptia, but not willing or able to join Beowulf and the GA, I'd think Erewhon might be a good source of Naval ships. They're, AFAIK, not part of the GA - simply retaining their mutual defense treaty with Haven - and they're already ramping up towards production of SD(P)s for home use and export sale to Maya. They'd probably be willing to sell them to at least some other ex-League systems. (Though I'm not sure if they're offering true MDMs for widespread export; or if their SD(P)s would come with ERMs)


Last we heard, the MARSN and ESN (and presumably the RTN) were still using surplus Manticoran Mark 14 ERMs. They weren't building their own.

But since the SLN and the MAlign have dual-stage Cataphracts, the GA is going to arm their closest allies with at least Mark 16 DDMs. Whether they get pre-Apollo MDMs (Mark 23 A?) or whether they only get Havenite MDMs, I can't say.

The Hypatian-Beowulfan Navy will get the full package.


No, Erewhon has developed another generation of EDMs past the mk 14 tech they inherited from Manticore. They have a cruiser weight missile that has a longer burn time than the mk 14, and a Capital weight missile for their pods - they are continuing to investigate the EDM tech, where Manticore stopped research and went with the Mk 16.

They are also developing their own capital MDMs from Manticore's early tech from the 1st war.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: New Hypatian Navy.
Post by phillies   » Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:06 pm

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The Hypatians can perfectly well use SLN missiles, this being entirely adequate against anyone other than the Grand Alliance, and SLN grazers, these being superior to the GA grazers at last report.
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Re: New Hypatian Navy.
Post by Theemile   » Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:57 pm

Theemile
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phillies wrote:The Hypatians can perfectly well use SLN missiles, this being entirely adequate against anyone other than the Grand Alliance, and SLN grazers, these being superior to the GA grazers at last report.


Actually, they are not better, I asked David awhile back what the comments at the beginning of UH actually meant, and his <snipped> response was:

They are far from being better than first-line, current-generation Manty weapons; they're certainly comparable, though, and we happen to know where we can get a bunch of them cheap. ;) :)
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: New Hypatian Navy.
Post by Jonathan_S   » Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:27 pm

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ThinksMarkedly wrote:
Jonathan_S wrote:For a system of similar strength to Hyptia, but not willing or able to join Beowulf and the GA, I'd think Erewhon might be a good source of Naval ships. They're, AFAIK, not part of the GA - simply retaining their mutual defense treaty with Haven - and they're already ramping up towards production of SD(P)s for home use and export sale to Maya. They'd probably be willing to sell them to at least some other ex-League systems. (Though I'm not sure if they're offering true MDMs for widespread export; or if their SD(P)s would come with ERMs)


Last we heard, the MARSN and ESN (and presumably the RTN) were still using surplus Manticoran Mark 14 ERMs. They weren't building their own.

But since the SLN and the MAlign have dual-stage Cataphracts, the GA is going to arm their closest allies with at least Mark 16 DDMs. Whether they get pre-Apollo MDMs (Mark 23 A?) or whether they only get Havenite MDMs, I can't say.

The Hypatian-Beowulfan Navy will get the full package.

Actually they'd evolved the Mk14 into their Mk17 ERM.
I was more of less assuming, though it isn't stated in the books, that once their ally Haven revealed that they had full up MDMs that Erewhon would have gotten that tech from them (late recompense for whatever of the Manti-lite tech package Erewhon shared during the ceasefire)

Whether they get the Mk16 or better from the GA probably depends on how closely they're willing to ally with Manticore again. If they just keep their side deal with Haven then Haven probably can't share the Manti missile tech with them.
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