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***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Trials

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by Dilandu   » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:53 pm

Dilandu
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PeterZ wrote:I was thinking along similar lines.

I don't think both Chihiro and Scheduler knew. If they did know, they would have produced another PICA to manage that threat. Even limited to the 10 window, the super seijin would have been the CoGA's trouble shooter. That doid not happen and suggests only one person knew about Nimue and that person did not want to counter Nimue's goal.


This is assuming that they (or at least Chihiro) did not enjoy the idea of becoming immortal god-like being for themselves. And they probably did. So, the whole "we must return to check things" were easily turned into "living forever is AWESOME, and we would have a whole humanity to play with!"
------------------------------

- Who would won in battle between strawman Liberal-Democrat and strawman Conservative-Republican?
- Scarecrow from Oz; he was strawman before it became political.

P.S. - And he have Russian twin, to watch his back)
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by Dilandu   » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:56 pm

Dilandu
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Location: Russia

ssl4000g wrote:If I am reading the textev correctly, it's saying that the last file that was uploaded by Pei to Nimue's computer/Owl?...has the name of the other person who went with Pei? Whoever it was went out with Pei.
W


Probably not. Owl at this time wasn't exactly the most curious being around, so if commodore Pei did not said it directly, Owl would have zero reasons to bother. He may extrapolate, of course, but it would probably result in something "I make a list of several hundred thousand persons, including Langhorne himself and all Archangels, who were statistically probable to be the one".
------------------------------

- Who would won in battle between strawman Liberal-Democrat and strawman Conservative-Republican?
- Scarecrow from Oz; he was strawman before it became political.

P.S. - And he have Russian twin, to watch his back)
Top
Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:28 pm

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if Chihiro was a true narcissist, he would not have seen that making a copy of himself was a way of living forever. He would still die and his copy would live on. Leaving that copy would be a duty, rather than a pleasure. Even so, he would leave a copy of himself rather than let someone else provide a copy of their personality.

Dilandu wrote:
PeterZ wrote:I was thinking along similar lines.

I don't think both Chihiro and Scheduler knew. If they did know, they would have produced another PICA to manage that threat. Even limited to the 10 window, the super seijin would have been the CoGA's trouble shooter. That doid not happen and suggests only one person knew about Nimue and that person did not want to counter Nimue's goal.


This is assuming that they (or at least Chihiro) did not enjoy the idea of becoming immortal god-like being for themselves. And they probably did. So, the whole "we must return to check things" were easily turned into "living forever is AWESOME, and we would have a whole humanity to play with!"
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by Bluesqueak   » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:22 pm

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PeterZ wrote:
"This is the final message, the last file, which will be loaded to your depot computer. Besides myself, only one other person knows of your existence , and he and I have an appointment with Administrator Langhorne and the Administrative Council tomorrow evening.I don't know if it will do any good, but Langhorne, Bédard, and their toadies are about to discover that they aren't the only people with a little undisclosed military hardware in reserve. There won't be any survivors. It won't bring back Shan-wei, or any of the rest of my—our—friends, but at least I'll take a little personal satisfaction out of it."
ssl4000g wrote:
If I am reading the textev correctly, it's saying that the last file that was uploaded by Pei to Nimue's computer/Owl?...has the name of the other person who went with Pei? Whoever it was went out with Pei.

W

Right after the bolded section is the tricky part. The two had an appointment. Was it kept by both people or just Pei? We don't know.


It does tell us the other person was male. Thinking about it, it does seem a bit odd that Pei would need two suicide bombers, so I would think an appointment for two would be a way of making sure person no. 2 was definitely and absolutely presumed dead. Then the 'deceased' would hide out somewhere else.

Alternatively, Person No. 2 made the appointment because Langhorne no longer trusted Pei, what with the entire killing his ex wife thing ... and then what? Had to go in with Pei because he was effectively the safe conduct? Or was unavoidably delayed owing to not wanting to be blown up?

By the way, have I mentioned that I think the entire Command Crew, of whichever side, were absolutely, incontestably, bugf*ck crazy?
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by WeberFan   » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:48 pm

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Dilandu wrote:
WeberFan wrote:Don't remember this... Textev???


Of course:

"This is the final message, the last file, which will be loaded to your depot computer. Besides myself, only one other person knows of your existence , and he and I have an appointment with Administrator Langhorne and the Administrative Council tomorrow evening.I don't know if it will do any good, but Langhorne, Bédard, and their toadies are about to discover that they aren't the only people with a little undisclosed military hardware in reserve. There won't be any survivors. It won't bring back Shan-wei, or any of the rest of my—our—friends, but at least I'll take a little personal satisfaction out of it."


Though I was slightly wrong: only one other person knew about Nimue existence, not Nimue cave. Still, this means that someone else existed - someone presumably not from doctor Pei crew - who knew about Nimue PICA.

P.S. I knew, it is tempting to assume that it was Schueller, but it actually may be the Chihiro. The idea of "archangel's return" - clearly not Langhorne's - may actually be inspired by his knowledge about Nimue existence.

Thank you, Dilandu.

For my money, the other person who knew was Dr. Elias Proctor - the person who hacked the PICA software.

In OAR, October 1, 3249, The Mountains of Light, Safehold, we have Commodore Pei's recording playing: "But Elias was very struck by your observation, and he pointed out, in turn, that the only thing preventing an existing, off-the-shelf PICA from being used to fulfill the same role were the protocols limiting PICAs to no more than ten days of independent operation. But those protocols were all in the software. He was relatively certain he could hack around them and deactivate them. And a single PICA, especially one with its power completely down, would be relatively easy to conceal - not just from the Gbaba, but from Langhorne."

A couple paragraphs later, the recording continues: "So I signed off on a last-minute cargo adjustment that included your PICA in your personal baggage allotment, on the basis that it might be useful for hostile environment work somewhere along the line."

In the second paragraph, it's obvious (and I don't think there's any dispute) that Commodore Pei knew - having approved the cargo adjustment. In the first paragraph, it's also pretty apparent (to me at least) that Dr. Proctor knew - being the person who did the hacking. I can't see any other person being "in the know." This is one that was very, very closely held!
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by ssl4000g   » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:21 pm

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PeterZ wrote:Right after the bolded section is the tricky part. The two had an appointment. Was it kept by both people or just Pei? We don't know.


True, and likely never know. Be interesting for Merlin to reveal that file. It's not protected as the Key is.

Besides the playing of Pei's message, how much do we know about the files left by Pei? I don't recall it being much besides what the textev states.

W
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by Dilandu   » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:45 pm

Dilandu
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WeberFan wrote:
Thank you, Dilandu.

For my money, the other person who knew was Dr. Elias Proctor - the person who hacked the PICA software.

In OAR, October 1, 3249, The Mountains of Light, Safehold, we have Commodore Pei's recording playing: "But Elias was very struck by your observation, and he pointed out, in turn, that the only thing preventing an existing, off-the-shelf PICA from being used to fulfill the same role were the protocols limiting PICAs to no more than ten days of independent operation. But those protocols were all in the software. He was relatively certain he could hack around them and deactivate them. And a single PICA, especially one with its power completely down, would be relatively easy to conceal - not just from the Gbaba, but from Langhorne."

A couple paragraphs later, the recording continues: "So I signed off on a last-minute cargo adjustment that included your PICA in your personal baggage allotment, on the basis that it might be useful for hostile environment work somewhere along the line."

In the second paragraph, it's obvious (and I don't think there's any dispute) that Commodore Pei knew - having approved the cargo adjustment. In the first paragraph, it's also pretty apparent (to me at least) that Dr. Proctor knew - being the person who did the hacking. I can't see any other person being "in the know." This is one that was very, very closely held!


Er, one problem: Proctor is treated as a "fallen archangel" in CoGA doctrine. Which means, he was a known Shain-Wei supporter, not just suspected one.
Last edited by Dilandu on Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
------------------------------

- Who would won in battle between strawman Liberal-Democrat and strawman Conservative-Republican?
- Scarecrow from Oz; he was strawman before it became political.

P.S. - And he have Russian twin, to watch his back)
Top
Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by Robert_A_Woodward   » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:23 am

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IMHO, the most likely other individual to know about Nimue's PICA (and not be part of the Alexandria Enclave) would have been Kau-yung's flag captain.
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Beowulf was bad.
(first sentence of Chapter VI of _Space Viking_ by H. Beam Piper)
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by Joat42   » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:19 am

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Dilandu wrote:Er, one problem: Proctor is treated as a "fallen archangel" in CoGA doctrine. Which means, he was a known Shain-Wei supporter, not just suspected one.

Why would that be a problem? It's only a problem if you are trying to fit him into a narrative that's not consistent with what we know. AFAIK, there's no textev of him being at the enclave when it was bombarded.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: ***Major Spoiler*** The ending scene of Through Fiery Tr
Post by Bluesqueak   » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:35 pm

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Joat42 wrote:
Dilandu wrote:Er, one problem: Proctor is treated as a "fallen archangel" in CoGA doctrine. Which means, he was a known Shain-Wei supporter, not just suspected one.

Why would that be a problem? It's only a problem if you are trying to fit him into a narrative that's not consistent with what we know. AFAIK, there's no textev of him being at the enclave when it was bombarded.


I think the problem is that if he was known to be a Shan-Wei supporter before the destruction of Alexandria, Langhorne would never have let both Pei and Proctor into an Administrative Council meeting. Not after Alexandria's destruction.

"Hi guys, how's it going? Really sorry about the murder of your ex-wife and good friend..."

Frankly, a vaguely sane Langhorne wouldn't have let Commodore Pei near him, which is why I wonder if Person 2 was a) someone trusted by Langhorne and b) made the appointment.

Later thought: suppose Langhorne DID want a meeting with Commodore Pei - to say 'It wasn't me, I didn't do it?' And then either Pei blew things up before Langhorne had a chance to explain - or somebody else blew them both up. Knowing they could blame it on Pei.
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