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Outsider view on US gun problems

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Re: Outsider view on US gun problems
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:47 am

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I am going to shock everyone by conceding that I do not favor unbridled capitalism. In the absence of some government regulation, the inevitable outcome of totally free market capitalism would be a single capitalist owning everything and workers having nothing.

On the other hand, excessive regulation and taxation under socialist democracy makes it extremely difficult for working class people to accumulate capital to start businesses and compete with established businesses.

The bottom line is that everyone should be able to keep the fruits of their labors, including the capitalists who own the "means of production." However; governmrnt should not enable the established capitslists from preventing workers from acquiring their own means of production.

It is A Question of Balance.
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Re: Outsider view on US gun problems
Post by noblehunter   » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:58 am

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Me: I want money without having to work for it.

Also me: Fuck Capitalism.
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Re: Outsider view on US gun problems
Post by gcomeau   » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:18 am

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:I am going to shock everyone by conceding that I do not favor unbridled capitalism. In the absence of some government regulation, the inevitable outcome of totally free market capitalism would be a single capitalist owning everything and workers having nothing.

On the other hand, excessive regulation and taxation under socialist democracy makes it extremely difficult for working class people to accumulate capital to start businesses and compete with established businesses.


Except... no.

https://www.epi.org/publication/usa-lag ... -mobility/

Those Social Democracies have the highest economic mobility. Far outpacing the US. It isn't even a contest. You are severely under appreciating how much freedom to take risks on new ventures having a solid safety net under you affords people in the workforce.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detai ... ir-country

But US citizens are by far the most delusional about how much opportunity for economic mobility they have, they have been sold a bill of goods for decades on that subject. They think there is far more opportunity for upward economic movement in the US than there actually is. Whereas in other countries people actually tend to underestimate how good their systems are at giving people those opportunities.
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Re: Outsider view on US gun problems
Post by Imaginos1892   » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:49 am

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The E wrote:
Imaginos1892 wrote:Do the 'progressives' really believe that your waiter should have 'income equality' with your doctor?

Wouldn't be an Imaginos post without some strawmanning going on in it.

Well, now, I tire of hearing the ‘progressives’ bleat constantly about the manifest self-evident evil of ‘income inequality’. They must be clamoring for ‘income equality’ then?

My response was to employ what is obviously reductio ad absurdum. Why couldn’t you figure that out? Was STRAWMAN the only word simple enough for you to memorize?
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Re: Outsider view on US gun problems
Post by The E   » Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:23 am

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Imaginos1892 wrote:Well, now, I tire of hearing the ‘progressives’ bleat constantly about the manifest self-evident evil of ‘income inequality’. They must be clamoring for ‘income equality’ then?

My response was to employ what is obviously reductio ad absurdum. Why couldn’t you figure that out? Was STRAWMAN the only word simple enough for you to memorize?


Did it really take you 10 days to come up with that?
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Re: Outsider view on US gun problems
Post by Imaginos1892   » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:18 am

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The E wrote:Did it really take you 10 days to come up with that?

No, it took a couple of minutes. I don't spend all my time posting on this forum.
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Re: Outsider view on US gun problems
Post by The E   » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:53 pm

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Imaginos1892 wrote:
The E wrote:Did it really take you 10 days to come up with that?

No, it took a couple of minutes. I don't spend all my time posting on this forum.


Given that you responded to the post when it was made without attaching this bit, it did take you ten days to come up with it though.

Also, it's funny: you claim to be employing reductio ad absurdum. But if that's true, given that it is largely indistinguishable from your usual rhetoric when it comes to criticizing "the liberals", then I have to conclude that you are in fact engaging in strawmanning. After all, if you concede that the positions you argue against are not representative of the mainstream opinion but rather reflect a criticism of extreme opinions held by unrepresentative minorities, you're fulfilling all the key aspects of strawman tactics, aren't you?
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Re: Outsider view on US gun problems
Post by Imaginos1892   » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:09 pm

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Yeah, you just go on telling yourself that.

Now, pointing out that the enemy's extremists are stupid, and downright batshit crazy, is not a STRAWMAN. Memorizing words is not enough; one must understand their meanings, and how to use them correctly.

If other leftists would call out the extremists, instead of defending them, I might be less inclined to suspect that they are merely blurting out what the 'moderates' dare not say.
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Re: Outsider view on US gun problems
Post by Michael Everett   » Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:01 am

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Imaginos1892 wrote:If other leftists would call out the extremists, instead of defending them, I might be less inclined to suspect that they are merely blurting out what the 'moderates' dare not say.

The various groups on the left remind me of the People's Liberation Front Of Judea/Popular Judean Liberation Front/Judean Liberation Front Of The People/People's Liberation Front Of Judea etc etc etc as seen in Monty Python's Life Of Brian.
Of course, none of them really want to be in charge, as that would take away the time and effort that they need in order to beat down those unmitigated traitorous bastards whose definition of A Perfect Utopian Socialist Society differs from their own by two words in page 163 of their People's Manifesto...
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Re: Outsider view on US gun problems
Post by Daryl   » Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:31 am

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Mind you there is a hilarious skit by Geoffrey Palmer, which illustrates the other side. He shows a friend an illegal .303 rifle that he has hidden under his bed, in case of an attack by Trotskyites, Marxists, and then goes through about 20 hypothetical left wing terrorist groups.

Michael Everett wrote:
Imaginos1892 wrote:If other leftists would call out the extremists, instead of defending them, I might be less inclined to suspect that they are merely blurting out what the 'moderates' dare not say.

The various groups on the left remind me of the People's Liberation Front Of Judea/Popular Judean Liberation Front/Judean Liberation Front Of The People/People's Liberation Front Of Judea etc etc etc as seen in Monty Python's Life Of Brian.
Of course, none of them really want to be in charge, as that would take away the time and effort that they need in order to beat down those unmitigated traitorous bastards whose definition of A Perfect Utopian Socialist Society differs from their own by two words in page 163 of their People's Manifesto...
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