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How to downgrade the fleet without upsetting the public?

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Re: How to downgrade the fleet without upsetting the puplic?
Post by Weird Harold   » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:17 am

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Fox2! wrote:Have we seen Mk16s of any variant? Not that it wouldn't be trivial to make them. I suppose there aren't enough Roland/Paul class DDs running around. And they are too valuable to use as part of a fixed defense plan. Older classes of DD/CL should have enough telemetry links to handle the job.


Just the first reference found; not even close to a comprehensive explanation.

House of Steel wrote:The Roland is a match for any conventional light or even heavy cruiser without multi-drive missiles of its own. The Roland is able to engage at a range far outside the opponent’s and is fast enough to make a run for it if its Mk16s are unable to penetrate the enemy’s defenses. As with the Wolfhound, the Roland class has no place in the modern RMN wall of battle, and all of the units thus far deployed have been sent to either the Talbott Quadrant or Silesia for use as pickets, system defense, and convoy protection. The Roland's use as a commerce raider has yet to be proven but extensive simulations reportedly have shown that the Roland will excel in that role should it be necessary.


ETA: More relevant to the discussion is the Mk-16 Mod G.

Shadow if Freedom
Chapter Twelve wrote:
The number of missiles, alone, had already made a mockery of her pre-engagement calculations. Their blinding speed, and the incredible power and effectiveness of the electronic warfare systems the Mark 16’s onboard fusion plant made possible were even worse. She had no way of knowing her entire squadron’s total defensive fire had destroyed only one shipkiller, but she knew it hadn’t stopped many, and the survivors completely ignored the decoys of her deployed Halo platforms. They scorched in on Paladin, and her stomach clenched in horrified disbelief as CIC’s estimate of the laser heads’ throughput appeared on her tactical plot’s sidebar.

The Mark 16’s original fifteen-megaton warhead had been more destructive than any destroyer or light cruiser missile ever previously deployed, although dealing with battlecruiser armor—as Abigail Hearns had learned aboard HMS Hexapuma in the Monica System—had pushed it to its limits. But Tristram and her sisters were equipped with the Mod G version, with a forty-megaton warhead and improved gravity generators. That increased its effectiveness by a factor of over five . . . which made it more powerful than the brand-new Trebuchet capital ship missile the Solarian League Navy had just begun to deploy.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: How to downgrade the fleet without upsetting the puplic?
Post by Garth 2   » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:02 am

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The simple answer is: Money :lol:

Reduce the fleet strength to reduce the tax burden on individuals

Though the governments know about the Alignment, this threat isn't "real" to the main population who after decades of war (or preparation of war) see a peace between Haven, SEM, and the SL. This would therefore inspire a segment of the population to demand a reduction in fleet spending to lower their personal tax payments (i.e. removal of the emergency war time only taxes)

Though the SL will probably break up, the nature of that break-up will be much more orderly than then the Alignment wanted/engineered
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Re: How to downgrade the fleet without upsetting the puplic?
Post by Maldorian   » Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:36 pm

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The simple answer is: Money :lol:

Reduce the fleet strength to reduce the tax burden on individuals

Though the governments know about the Alignment, this threat isn't "real" to the main population who after decades of war (or preparation of war) see a peace between Haven, SEM, and the SL. This would therefore inspire a segment of the population to demand a reduction in fleet spending to lower their personal tax payments (i.e. removal of the emergency war time only taxes)

Though the SL will probably break up, the nature of that break-up will be much more orderly than then the Alignment wanted/engineered
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One side is, Manticore has with it´s bigger territory also a bigger tax paying population. Other side is, they have to spend a lot of money to increase the economic, military and overall infrastructur on these new world´s. Not to mention the rebuild of the manticorian space station´s.

I think one of the first things manticore would do ist to replace older hulls with newer designs to keep the logistics easier/cheaper.

Also, what we all should Know: Reducing the Wall because no need for a big amount of Wallships in peace times and also, some of the defense job of wallers can be done with ceaper system defense pods.
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Re: How to downgrade the fleet without upsetting the puplic?
Post by Fox2!   » Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:02 pm

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Fox2! wrote:Have we seen Mk16s of any variant? Not that it wouldn't be trivial to make them. I suppose there aren't enough Roland/Paul class DDs running around. And they are too valuable to use as part of a fixed defense plan. Older classes of DD/CL should have enough telemetry links to handle the job.


Ouch! Must have taken a proton hit to the CPU (Cerebral Processing Unit) and suffered an SEU.

Should have been "Have we seen Mk 16 pods of any variant?"

And I can't even blame using a hand-held rather than my desktop.

Mea culpa. (strikes breast)
Mea culpa. (strikes breast)
Mea maxima culpa. (strikes breast)
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Re: How to downgrade the fleet without upsetting the puplic?
Post by kzt   » Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:22 pm

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The pods that hold Mk23s also hold Mk16s. This ws necessary so that the RMN could ensure that their PC(P)s always had the wrong loadout in important fights so as to raise the dramatic tension.
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Re: How to downgrade the fleet without upsetting the puplic?
Post by Weird Harold   » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:13 pm

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Fox2! wrote:Should have been "Have we seen Mk 16 pods of any variant?"


Yes, we have seen Mk16 pods.

Manticore developed the "flat pack" pods so that Mk16, Mk23, and Apollo (basically all the fusion powered variants) so that SD(p) could use the same rails and handling equipment.

I would presume that older SD(p)s that used capacitor, single-drive missiles, and/or older towed pods are still around and and in use for LERM and ERM missiles.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

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Re: How to downgrade the fleet without upsetting the puplic?
Post by Puidwen   » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:36 pm

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Garth 2 wrote:The simple answer is: Money :lol:

Reduce the fleet strength to reduce the tax burden on individuals

Though the governments know about the Alignment, this threat isn't "real" to the main population who after decades of war (or preparation of war) see a peace between Haven, SEM, and the SL. This would therefore inspire a segment of the population to demand a reduction in fleet spending to lower their personal tax payments (i.e. removal of the emergency war time only taxes)

Though the SL will probably break up, the nature of that break-up will be much more orderly than then the Alignment wanted/engineered


I suspect Sphinx at least will disagree about whether the alignment is a vague threat.
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Re: How to downgrade the fleet without upsetting the puplic?
Post by kzt   » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:50 pm

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Puidwen wrote:I suspect Sphinx at least will disagree about whether the alignment is a vague threat.

I find it darkly amusing that the death 0.1% of the treecat population was considered oh so much more serious than 0.5% of the human population getting killed.
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Re: How to downgrade the fleet without upsetting the puplic?
Post by Theemile   » Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:59 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:
Fox2! wrote:Should have been "Have we seen Mk 16 pods of any variant?"


Yes, we have seen Mk16 pods.

Manticore developed the "flat pack" pods so that Mk16, Mk23, and Apollo (basically all the fusion powered variants) so that SD(p) could use the same rails and handling equipment.

I would presume that older SD(p)s that used capacitor, single-drive missiles, and/or older towed pods are still around and and in use for LERM and ERM missiles.


The flat pack pods designed for use in the Agamemnon BC(p)s carry 14 mk 16s per pod.
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RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: How to downgrade the fleet without upsetting the puplic?
Post by Theemile   » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:15 pm

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Garth 2 wrote:The simple answer is: Money :lol:

Reduce the fleet strength to reduce the tax burden on individuals

Though the governments know about the Alignment, this threat isn't "real" to the main population who after decades of war (or preparation of war) see a peace between Haven, SEM, and the SL. This would therefore inspire a segment of the population to demand a reduction in fleet spending to lower their personal tax payments (i.e. removal of the emergency war time only taxes)

Though the SL will probably break up, the nature of that break-up will be much more orderly than then the Alignment wanted/engineered


Ah, but the SKM has grown from 4 planets to 6 planets between 1916 and 1919, and changed to the SEM with the integration of first 16 planets, then 34 new planets, all before 1923, and may have as many as 20 former Havenite worlds choose to join in the next couple of years. All while it still has the same sized navy as if did in 1900.

Also, the SEM has not replaced San Martin's deceased navy, nor has it replaced the outdated self defense forces of the Talbot forces. Also the SEM retired the 1/2 of the Silesian navy it inherited, and not replaced it.

So the SEM has a much larger tax base than it did in 1900, and one which is also growing at a massive pace, yet has a smaller, more efficient navy than the constituent parts did in 1900.

So I would say some growth in the proper sectors if the fleet are still in order, but the fleet will still be smaller than the constituent parts in the end, and more focused on smaller and midsized units than today.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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