Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Police, Police, Police

The Management is not responsible for the contents of this forum. Enter at your own risk.
Police, Police, Police
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:57 am

TFLYTSNBN
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1611
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:58 am

This arrest is big news in America:

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2019/ ... -arrested/

This arrest amazes those of us who are aware that the US Supreme Court has ruled that the police have no legal obligation to protect individual citizens. They are at liberty to just sit in the donut shop stuffing themselves while they watch the carnage.

Other examples include the Los Vegas massacre where LVPD officers were caught on camera and live microphone cowering in the hallway outside of the shooters room while they waited for the shooting to stop.

Another example is Sandy Hook where the cops cowered in the parking lot while they listened to the shooter massacring the young children.

The Clackamas County Sheriff's office actually brought in their MOBILE COMMAND POST before entering the Clackamas Town Center shopping mall before entering the building to give themselves an excuse to cower in the parking lot. The punch line is that the Sheriff's headquarters shares a parking lot with the mall! Fortunately; a citizen armed with a handgun confronted the shooter armed with a rifle. That paniced the shooter into biffing a magazine change so he retreated to where he committed suicide.

The authorities are making a scapegoat of this coward because the negligence runs clear to the Sheriff and the Governor as well as the school district administration. However; this might be the start of a rational conversation about crime in America.
Top
Re: Police, Police, Police
Post by gcomeau   » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:26 am

gcomeau
Admiral

Posts: 2320
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:24 pm

TFLYTSNBN wrote:This arrest is big news in America:

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2019/ ... -arrested/

This arrest amazes those of us who are aware that the US Supreme Court has ruled that the police have no legal obligation to protect individual citizens. They are at liberty to just sit in the donut shop stuffing themselves while they watch the carnage.

Other examples include the Los Vegas massacre where LVPD officers were caught on camera and live microphone cowering in the hallway outside of the shooters room while they waited for the shooting to stop.

Another example is Sandy Hook where the cops cowered in the parking lot while they listened to the shooter massacring the young children.

The Clackamas County Sheriff's office actually brought in their MOBILE COMMAND POST before entering the Clackamas Town Center shopping mall before entering the building to give themselves an excuse to cower in the parking lot. The punch line is that the Sheriff's headquarters shares a parking lot with the mall! Fortunately; a citizen armed with a handgun confronted the shooter armed with a rifle. That paniced the shooter into biffing a magazine change so he retreated to where he committed suicide.

The authorities are making a scapegoat of this coward because the negligence runs clear to the Sheriff and the Governor as well as the school district administration. However; this might be the start of a rational conversation about crime in America.


The post in which TFLY undercuts the ENTIRE gun rights rationale for people carrying guns making them safer and the myth of "good guys with a gun stop bad guys with a gun" by providing example after example of even trained armed professionals being inadequate to prevent armed psychopaths from slaughtering people... without having an ounce of awareness of the point he is actually making.
Top
Re: Police, Police, Police
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:41 am

TFLYTSNBN
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1611
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:58 am

gcomeau wrote:
TFLYTSNBN wrote:This arrest is big news in America:

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2019/ ... -arrested/

This arrest amazes those of us who are aware that the US Supreme Court has ruled that the police have no legal obligation to protect individual citizens. They are at liberty to just sit in the donut shop stuffing themselves while they watch the carnage.

Other examples include the Los Vegas massacre where LVPD officers were caught on camera and live microphone cowering in the hallway outside of the shooters room while they waited for the shooting to stop.

Another example is Sandy Hook where the cops cowered in the parking lot while they listened to the shooter massacring the young children.

The Clackamas County Sheriff's office actually brought in their MOBILE COMMAND POST before entering the Clackamas Town Center shopping mall before entering the building to give themselves an excuse to cower in the parking lot. The punch line is that the Sheriff's headquarters shares a parking lot with the mall! Fortunately; a citizen armed with a handgun confronted the shooter armed with a rifle. That paniced the shooter into biffing a magazine change so he retreated to where he committed suicide.

The authorities are making a scapegoat of this coward because the negligence runs clear to the Sheriff and the Governor as well as the school district administration. However; this might be the start of a rational conversation about crime in America.


The post in which TFLY undercuts the ENTIRE gun rights rationale for people carrying guns making them safer and the myth of "good guys with a gun stop bad guys with a gun" by providing example after example of even trained armed professionals being inadequate to prevent armed psychopaths from slaughtering people... without having an ounce of awareness of the point he is actually making.


Actually; I am entirely aware of the actual tactical realities. Given the circumstances of these shooting incidents, the armed, allegedly professional police were not at a tactical disasvantage.

The Sandy Hook murderer left his Saiga shotgun in the trunk of his car and abandoned his AR-15 at the front door to kill with his handguns.

The Clackamas County Sheriffs Deputies are well armed with shotguns and patrol rifles to augment their full frame high capacity semiautomatic pistols. They were not outgunned. The armed citizen who confronted the shooter with his compact carry pistol was outgunned. He did not allow that to dissuade him from confronting from a range at which a rifle does have a profound advantage over a pistol. The only thing that dissuaded him was that he didnt have a clear shot that wouldn't endanger bystanders.

We have had plenty of these shooting incidents ended by both police with functioning ovaries or testicles, or armed citizens.
Top
Re: Police, Police, Police
Post by gcomeau   » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:46 am

gcomeau
Admiral

Posts: 2320
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:24 pm

TFLYTSNBN wrote:
gcomeau wrote:The post in which TFLY undercuts the ENTIRE gun rights rationale for people carrying guns making them safer and the myth of "good guys with a gun stop bad guys with a gun" by providing example after example of even trained armed professionals being inadequate to prevent armed psychopaths from slaughtering people... without having an ounce of awareness of the point he is actually making.


Actually; I am entirely aware of the actual tactical realities. Given the circumstances of these shooting incidents, the armed, allegedly professional police were not at a tactical disasvantage.

The Sandy Hook murderer left his Saiga shotgun in the trunk of his car and abandoned his AR-15 at the front door to kill with his handguns.

The Clackamas County Sheriffs Deputies are well armed with shotguns and patrol rifles to augment their full frame high capacity semiautomatic pistols. They were not outgunned.


And yet.... lots of dead people.

Because a lunatic had easy access to firearms, and killed lots of people with them. While armed, trained professionals were too nervous to intervene in a timely manner.

But the 3rd grade art teacher, she is supposed to be Rambo if you arm her up and make her Guardian Of The School. :roll:

The armed citizen who confronted the shooter with his compact carry pistol was outgunned. He did not allow that to dissuade him from confronting from a range at which a rifle does have a profound advantage over a pistol. The only thing that dissuaded him was that he didnt have a clear shot that wouldn't endanger bystanders.

We have had plenty of these shooting incidents ended by both police with functioning ovaries or testicles, or armed citizens.


And lots of dead people in most of those before they ended too.

It's mind boggling that you appear to think you just described outcomes where your preferred system "worked".
Top
Re: Police, Police, Police
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:16 pm

Dilandu
Admiral

Posts: 2119
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 12:44 pm
Location: Russia

gcomeau wrote:
But the 3rd grade art teacher, she is supposed to be Rambo if you arm her up and make her Guardian Of The School. :roll:


I just could not understood one thing: why its impossible to provide armed guards for the schools? As far as I knew, the US have quite a lot of unemployed military veterans - i.e. peoples who knew how to use a weapon and accustomed to danger - so why don't kill two birds with one stone, and start some federal-scale program of school security?
------------------------------

- Who would won in battle between strawman Liberal-Democrat and strawman Conservative-Republican?
- Scarecrow from Oz; he was strawman before it became political.

P.S. - And he have Russian twin, to watch his back)
Top
Re: Police, Police, Police
Post by gcomeau   » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:51 pm

gcomeau
Admiral

Posts: 2320
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:24 pm

Dilandu wrote:
gcomeau wrote:
But the 3rd grade art teacher, she is supposed to be Rambo if you arm her up and make her Guardian Of The School. :roll:


I just could not understood one thing: why its impossible to provide armed guards for the schools? As far as I knew, the US have quite a lot of unemployed military veterans - i.e. peoples who knew how to use a weapon and accustomed to danger - so why don't kill two birds with one stone, and start some federal-scale program of school security?


Both Columbine and Parkland had armed guards.

Still lots of dead kids, because that's a ridiculously ineffective approach to the problem.

1. You're relying on the guy making probably like $20 or $25 an hour and is really probably just there for the paycheck to play hero against someone who could have rolled in with an AR-15 and murderous intent.

2. The attacker pretty much ALWAYS has the advantage because they know when and where they're going to start shooting and the guard does not.

(And if said attacker knows about the guard they could always just start with, you know, shooting the guard. Then they get *another* gun.)
Top
Re: Police, Police, Police
Post by cthia   » Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:12 pm

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 11274
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

Dilandu wrote:
gcomeau wrote:
But the 3rd grade art teacher, she is supposed to be Rambo if you arm her up and make her Guardian Of The School. :roll:


I just could not understood one thing: why its impossible to provide armed guards for the schools? As far as I knew, the US have quite a lot of unemployed military veterans - i.e. peoples who knew how to use a weapon and accustomed to danger - so why don't kill two birds with one stone, and start some federal-scale program of school security?


gcomeau wrote:Both Columbine and Parkland had armed guards.

Still lots of dead kids, because that's a ridiculously ineffective approach to the problem.

1. You're relying on the guy making probably like $20 or $25 an hour and is really probably just there for the paycheck to play hero against someone who could have rolled in with an AR-15 and murderous intent.

2. The attacker pretty much ALWAYS has the advantage because they know when and where they're going to start shooting and the guard does not.

(And if said attacker knows about the guard they could always just start with, you know, shooting the guard. Then they get *another* gun.)

In addition, initially, it was the prohibitive cost. Some schools operate in the red. Along with the perception of a diminished environment (atmosphere) for the kids. I know I wouldn't have wanted armed guards walking around my school. And, intimidation. Especially when I'm sneaking off to score with the hot blonde I've been feeling up. Then there's the question of how long before they will become a problem, sleeping with students and shooting teens for fighting. Probably black teens, at that. Replace a problem with a problem.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: Police, Police, Police
Post by cthia   » Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:18 pm

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 11274
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

gcomeau wrote:
TFLYTSNBN wrote:This arrest is big news in America:

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2019/ ... -arrested/

This arrest amazes those of us who are aware that the US Supreme Court has ruled that the police have no legal obligation to protect individual citizens. They are at liberty to just sit in the donut shop stuffing themselves while they watch the carnage.

Other examples include the Los Vegas massacre where LVPD officers were caught on camera and live microphone cowering in the hallway outside of the shooters room while they waited for the shooting to stop.

Another example is Sandy Hook where the cops cowered in the parking lot while they listened to the shooter massacring the young children.

The Clackamas County Sheriff's office actually brought in their MOBILE COMMAND POST before entering the Clackamas Town Center shopping mall before entering the building to give themselves an excuse to cower in the parking lot. The punch line is that the Sheriff's headquarters shares a parking lot with the mall! Fortunately; a citizen armed with a handgun confronted the shooter armed with a rifle. That paniced the shooter into biffing a magazine change so he retreated to where he committed suicide.

The authorities are making a scapegoat of this coward because the negligence runs clear to the Sheriff and the Governor as well as the school district administration. However; this might be the start of a rational conversation about crime in America.


The post in which TFLY undercuts the ENTIRE gun rights rationale for people carrying guns making them safer and the myth of "good guys with a gun stop bad guys with a gun" by providing example after example of even trained armed professionals being inadequate to prevent armed psychopaths from slaughtering people... without having an ounce of awareness of the point he is actually making.

Hmm. . . I thought this thread was more of a . . .

"Police please don't don't shoot!" "Police, WTF!" "Police, oh what have you done!?" ::facepalm:: ::tears::

"I thought he had a gun."

"What, his WHITE Apple iPhone?"

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: Police, Police, Police
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:41 pm

Dilandu
Admiral

Posts: 2119
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 12:44 pm
Location: Russia

cthia wrote:In addition, initially, it was the prohibitive cost. Some schools operate in the red. Along with the perception of a diminished environment (atmosphere) for the kids. I know I wouldn't have wanted armed guards walking around my school. And, intimidation. Especially when I'm sneaking off to score with the hot blonde I've been feeling up. Then there's the question of how long before they will become a problem, sleeping with students and shooting teens for fighting. Probably black teens, at that. Replace a problem with a problem.


I agree with the point about cost - albeit the idea that the richest nation in the world could not provide enough finances for the school program is pretty strange by itself - but the others are quite made-up assumptions & far-fetched worries.

Along with the perception of a diminished environment (atmosphere) for the kids.


If some kids in your country are intimidated by the mere idea of armed guards, while other kids may actually possess weapons at the same time, then the problem is not in laws, it's in heads. The problem of US gun violence would not be solved until some intermediate position would be found between "A-a-a-a, guns!!!" and "O-o-oh, gu-u-uns..."

Then there's the question of how long before they will become a problem, sleeping with students and shooting teens for fighting.


...You understood that this is very far-fetched assumption?
------------------------------

- Who would won in battle between strawman Liberal-Democrat and strawman Conservative-Republican?
- Scarecrow from Oz; he was strawman before it became political.

P.S. - And he have Russian twin, to watch his back)
Top
Re: Police, Police, Police
Post by cthia   » Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:19 pm

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 11274
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

Dilandu wrote:
cthia wrote:In addition, initially, it was the prohibitive cost. Some schools operate in the red. Along with the perception of a diminished environment (atmosphere) for the kids. I know I wouldn't have wanted armed guards walking around my school. And, intimidation. Especially when I'm sneaking off to score with the hot blonde I've been feeling up. Then there's the question of how long before they will become a problem, sleeping with students and shooting teens for fighting. Probably black teens, at that. Replace a problem with a problem.


I agree with the point about cost - albeit the idea that the richest nation in the world could not provide enough finances for the school program is pretty strange by itself - but the others are quite made-up assumptions & far-fetched worries.

Along with the perception of a diminished environment (atmosphere) for the kids.


If some kids in your country are intimidated by the mere idea of armed guards, while other kids may actually possess weapons at the same time, then the problem is not in laws, it's in heads. The problem of US gun violence would not be solved until some intermediate position would be found between "A-a-a-a, guns!!!" and "O-o-oh, gu-u-uns..."

Then there's the question of how long before they will become a problem, sleeping with students and shooting teens for fighting.


...You understood that this is very far-fetched assumption?

No.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top

Return to Politics