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Fallout from "Trump colluded with Russia" conspiracy theory.

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Fallout from "Trump colluded with Russia" conspiracy theory.
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:03 pm

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Just saw this article:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 83976.html

How much of this perceived increase in the risk of nuclear war is a consequence of President Trump being effeftively precluded from engaging with Vladimir Putin during the first two years of his presidency.
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Re: Fallout from "Trump colluded with Russia" conspiracy the
Post by gcomeau   » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:10 pm

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:Just saw this article:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 83976.html

How much of this perceived increase in the risk of nuclear war is a consequence of President Trump being effeftively precluded from engaging with Vladimir Putin during the first two years of his presidency.


HE HELD PRIVATE ONE ON ONE MEETINGS WITH HIM FROM WHICH EVEN HIS OWN ADMINISTRATION PERSONNEL WERE EXCLUDED AND NO RECORDS OF WHAT THEY SAID WERE KEPT.

"Precluded from engaging" :roll:

And I see someone else hasn't bothered actually reading Mueller's report...
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Re: Fallout from "Trump colluded with Russia" conspiracy the
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:03 am

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gcomeau wrote:
TFLYTSNBN wrote:Just saw this article:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 83976.html

How much of this perceived increase in the risk of nuclear war is a consequence of President Trump being effeftively precluded from engaging with Vladimir Putin during the first two years of his presidency.


HE HELD PRIVATE ONE ON ONE MEETINGS WITH HIM FROM WHICH EVEN HIS OWN ADMINISTRATION PERSONNEL WERE EXCLUDED AND NO RECORDS OF WHAT THEY SAID WERE KEPT.

"Precluded from engaging" :roll:

And I see someone else hasn't bothered actually reading Mueller's report...


Yep.

Here is a lits.

I'm shocked, Shocked, SHOCKED to that an American President would talk to the leader of the one foreign leader that controls a nuclear arsenal that can actually obliterate America. Here is a list:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... calls.html


These semi private meetings are far from unprecedented.

The result of these meetings between Trump and Putin?

More stringent sanctions and an undermining of Russia's energy sector.

https://www.apnews.com/d42cfb54d7b74eec84804351abe1a525
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Re: Fallout from "Trump colluded with Russia" conspiracy the
Post by gcomeau   » Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:15 am

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:
gcomeau wrote:HE HELD PRIVATE ONE ON ONE MEETINGS WITH HIM FROM WHICH EVEN HIS OWN ADMINISTRATION PERSONNEL WERE EXCLUDED AND NO RECORDS OF WHAT THEY SAID WERE KEPT.

"Precluded from engaging" :roll:

And I see someone else hasn't bothered actually reading Mueller's report...


Yep.

Here is a lits.

I'm shocked, Shocked, SHOCKED to that an American President would talk to the leader of the one foreign leader that controls a nuclear arsenal that can actually obliterate America.


So you have completely abandoned your original claim that he was precluded from engaging with Putin and this somehow caused a nuclear war threat in a single post.

So you were totally full of crap. Noted.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/01/15/us/politics/trump-putin-meetings-phone-calls.html


These semi private meetings are far from unprecedented.


Meetings with a hostile foreign leader who is stated flat out by US intelligence to have actively attacked US elections in order to get the US president meeting with him elected... where the *entirety* of US administration personnel are excluded and no records are kept of the content of the conversation... are extremely unprecedented.

The result of these meetings between Trump and Putin?

More stringent sanctions and an undermining of Russia's energy sector.


No, that was the outcome of Congress FORCING sanctions. Which the Trump administration immediately started undermining and trying to roll back again.
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Re: Fallout from "Trump colluded with Russia" conspiracy the
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:29 pm

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gcomeau wrote:
TFLYTSNBN wrote:


Yep.

Here is a lits.

I'm shocked, Shocked, SHOCKED to that an American President would talk to the leader of the one foreign leader that controls a nuclear arsenal that can actually obliterate America.


So you have completely abandoned your original claim that he was precluded from engaging with Putin and this somehow caused a nuclear war threat in a single post.

So you were totally full of crap. Noted.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/01/15/us/politics/trump-putin-meetings-phone-calls.html


These semi private meetings are far from unprecedented.


Meetings with a hostile foreign leader who is stated flat out by US intelligence to have actively attacked US elections in order to get the US president meeting with him elected... where the *entirety* of US administration personnel are excluded and no records are kept of the content of the conversation... are extremely unprecedented.

The result of these meetings between Trump and Putin?

More stringent sanctions and an undermining of Russia's energy sector.


No, that was the outcome of Congress FORCING sanctions. Which the Trump administration immediately started undermining and trying to roll back again.



That list of semi private conversations with Putin is vanishingly small. There has obviously been no progress on reducing tensions that might suggest Trump made a deal with Putin.

It was Trump rather than Congress that tightened sanctions.


BTW, I would favor the US recognizing Russian sovereignty over Crimea in return for Russia supporting denuclearization of North Korea or even reunification.
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Re: Fallout from "Trump colluded with Russia" conspiracy the
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:32 pm

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Here we have a truly fascinating example of a US President being compromised by the Russians.

https://www.chicksonright.com/youngcons ... ns-affair/

It really wasn't drug abuse because Bill didn't inhale.

It really wasn't adultery because Monica didn't swallow.

How else did those incriminating DNA stains get on Linda Tripp's blue dress.
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Re: Fallout from "Trump colluded with Russia" conspiracy the
Post by Donnachaidh   » Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:39 pm

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All of your arguments are what-about-ism.

Since you've come back, I've found I don't really read the forum much anymore because your toxicity and trolling behavior. All your return to this forum has done is making things less pleasant. Perhaps you should take a few minutes to look at what you're adding (or subtracting) from the world.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:Here we have a truly fascinating example of a US President being compromised by the Russians.

https://www.chicksonright.com/youngcons ... ns-affair/

It really wasn't drug abuse because Bill didn't inhale.

It really wasn't adultery because Monica didn't swallow.

How else did those incriminating DNA stains get on Linda Tripp's blue dress.
_____________________________________________________
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain
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Re: Fallout from "Trump colluded with Russia" conspiracy the
Post by gcomeau   » Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:03 pm

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:That list of semi private conversations with Putin is vanishingly small.


How often exactly do you think it is normal for the heads of state of the US and Russia to meet or speak *directly to each other* as opposed to through diplomatic intermediaries?

Putin and Obama had 5 face to face meetings in eight years. All with witnesses in the room, and the contents of their discussions fully recorded for the record. As they are supposed to be.

There has obviously been no progress on reducing tensions that might suggest Trump made a deal with Putin.


Yeah, because the top of Russia's wish list is "reduced tensions". :roll:

It's not... say... driving a wedge between the US and NATO. Or for the US to back off on their annexation of Crimea. Or to see general US international influence undermined and diminished. Or to see authoritarian regimes normalized. Or to get sanctions on their economy loosened.

It was Trump rather than Congress that tightened sanctions.


No. It. Was. Not.

His administration has resisted, delayed, and attempted to water down or reverse sanctions on Russia constantly.

Trump refuses to impose new Russia sanctions despite law passed by US Congress over election hacking

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 84866.html

Trump signs Russia sanctions bill but blasts Congress
(He was angry Congress limited his ability to remove the sanctions again without their agreement. Guess why Congress (this was when REPUBLICANS were in control of both houses) did that?))

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/ ... ill-241242

Treasury plans to lift sanctions on Russian aluminum giant Rusal

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/19/business ... index.html
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Re: Fallout from "Trump colluded with Russia" conspiracy the
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:51 am

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gcomeau wrote:
TFLYTSNBN wrote:That list of semi private conversations with Putin is vanishingly small.


How often exactly do you think it is normal for the heads of state of the US and Russia to meet or speak *directly to each other* as opposed to through diplomatic intermediaries?

Putin and Obama had 5 face to face meetings in eight years. All with witnesses in the room, and the contents of their discussions fully recorded for the record. As they are supposed to be.

There has obviously been no progress on reducing tensions that might suggest Trump made a deal with Putin.


Yeah, because the top of Russia's wish list is "reduced tensions". :roll:

It's not... say... driving a wedge between the US and NATO. Or for the US to back off on their annexation of Crimea. Or to see general US international influence undermined and diminished. Or to see authoritarian regimes normalized. Or to get sanctions on their economy loosened.

It was Trump rather than Congress that tightened sanctions.


No. It. Was. Not.

His administration has resisted, delayed, and attempted to water down or reverse sanctions on Russia constantly.

Trump refuses to impose new Russia sanctions despite law passed by US Congress over election hacking

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 84866.html

Trump signs Russia sanctions bill but blasts Congress
(He was angry Congress limited his ability to remove the sanctions again without their agreement. Guess why Congress (this was when REPUBLICANS were in control of both houses) did that?))

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/ ... ill-241242

Treasury plans to lift sanctions on Russian aluminum giant Rusal

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/19/business ... index.html



It absolutely is in Russia's best interest to reduce tensions with the US because Russia understands what the consequences of a nuclear war with the US would be. Missile defenses and civil defenses might mitigate the consequences, but Russia exists on the EurAsian plain with no nateral geographic defenses to protect them from their enemies.


Russia has always been and always will be a competitor to the US but not neccessarily an enemy. Russia was actually an ally during World War 2.

Tensions with Russia have escalated as a direct consequence of the United States inciting a coup in Ukraine during the Obama/Clinton Presidency. That was abject stupidity. A neutral Ukraine enabled a stable relationship with Russia while a nationalistic, racist Ukraine hostile to Russia and the ethnic Russian majority in Crimea guarentees conflict. Surprise, surprise, surprise, Russia was not going to surrender Crimea without a fight.

The Arab Spring fiasco which gave us the Libyan civil war and the Syrian civil war was motivated primarily by France, England and Itally objecting to China getting the big oil contracts from Libya. Now instead of having the country ruled by a repentant Daffy Gadaffy who had surrendered his WMD, we have chaos which has brought Libyan oil production to a trickle.

The Arab Spring demonstrates the dangers of having allies. Allies can get the US into wars that America does not need. Ditto for the Ukrainian coup. The marginal military capabilities of the Europeans are vastly outweighed by the risks that the alliance creates.
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Re: Fallout from "Trump colluded with Russia" conspiracy the
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:03 am

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Donnachaidh wrote:All of your arguments are what-about-ism.

Since you've come back, I've found I don't really read the forum much anymore because your toxicity and trolling behavior. All your return to this forum has done is making things less pleasant. Perhaps you should take a few minutes to look at what you're adding (or subtracting) from the world.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:Here we have a truly fascinating example of a US President being compromised by the Russians.

https://www.chicksonright.com/youngcons ... ns-affair/

It really wasn't drug abuse because Bill didn't inhale.

It really wasn't adultery because Monica didn't swallow.

How else did those incriminating DNA stains get on Linda Tripp's blue dress.



I have observed how the liberals and foreigners have systematically trolled American conservatives on this board then demanded that Duckk banhammer them when they responded in kind. NIMITZ was among the victims.

I have no doubt that this board is more pleasant for the liberals and foreigners when there are no conservative Americans responding to their America bashing.

Here is a parting thought for you:

Imagine Hillary Clinton reading about the confirmation that the DNA stains on Linda Tripp's blue dress were Bill's then becoming angry that her husband would cheat on her with such an unskilled amatuer.
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