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Grayson - We Shall Overcome

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Grayson - We Shall Overcome
Post by cthia   » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:07 am

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. . . some day-ay-ay-ay-ay.

I recall a bit of textev of Protector Benjamin pontificating the rock and the hard place he found himself in. At the core of Benjamin's reforms was the real need to protect Grayson. To protect Grayson from the writing on the wall which was the expansionistic qualities of the Peeps and the Solarian League. Indeed, Benjamin could not discharge his responsibility of protecting the people of Grayson without seeking outside help. This fact came to be nothing short of providence in the mind of Benjamin who took cold, calculating advantage of it. Was it the right thing to do? From the viewpoint of an infidel, almost certainly. But was it, from the viewpoint of the heart, mind and soul of Grayson herself? Many Graysons don't like the Mayhew Restoration and its reforms. They charge Benjamin with overstepping his bounds as the Protector. They feel that an alliance should not have come at the expense of Grayson's soul.

Where am I headed, what trajectory am I on? Well, we all know much of the history of the Old Republic and of the aches and pains and slings and arrows of its outrageous fortunes, suffered by Haven and certain romantic Havenites to restore it. Will Grayson inevitably go down that same road too, again, to roll back what Benjamin has done? Seeking an alliance with Manticore, in its moment of clarity and foresight, might have been prudent of Grayson as a whole. But was the wide swath cut across its soul -- radically imposed and unprecedentedly instituted and represented by Benjamin's reforms -- crossing the line?

Will Grayson someday have another civil war to right the atrocities imposed by Benjamin's reforms? What form will it take? Will Manticore be held at bay because of its "Civil War" and "Holy War" status? It won't be like Grayson against Masada.

Similarities to the Restored Republic already suggest itself, like the inherent loyalties of StateSec and the Protector's Own and the RHN (GSN). Where would it all leave Honor?

We all know the advantages of allies, but in time (and in light of the two entities with expansionistic appetites kindly removed) the disadvantages may begin to assert themselves and fuel anti-sentiment to a Reformed Grayson and a push to restore her to her former "GLORY!"

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Grayson - We Shall Overcome
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:01 am

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Excellent question.

One major factor is Dr Harrington's success in identifying the cause of the high rate of miscarriages, especially of male babies, and the resulting sexual imbalance. Grayson's "soul" with its militant misogyny is of course a social and religious adaptation to these two realities that threatened Grayson's survival for a millenia. The more even gender balance (I would love to see their population pyramid) that is evolving will have a profound effect on how the Grayson people perceive these social and religious questions. IMHO, Grayson can not revert to its ultraorthodox, polygynist roots without preserving the high infant mortality rate, limited life expectancy, and gender imbalance. Given Grayson's fundamentalist, pro-life philosophy, I don't see how the religious leaders would much less could return to the social norms of the HOTQ era.
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Re: Grayson - We Shall Overcome
Post by tlb   » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:55 am

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cthia wrote:Was it the right thing to do? From the viewpoint of an infidel, almost certainly. But was it, from the viewpoint of the heart, mind and soul of Grayson herself? Many Graysons don't like the Mayhew Restoration and its reforms. They charge Benjamin with overstepping his bounds as the Protector. They feel that an alliance should not have come at the expense of Grayson's soul.

There are two separate questions here: one is the Alliance and the second is the Mayhew Restoration.

With regards to the Mayhew Restoration. Since, in principle, it is a reversion to the historical balance of power; I expect that the persistence of the changes will depend on the relative power of any future Protector and the Council. In itself this question has nothing to do with Grayson's soul.

As pointed out the Alliance has brought major benefits to the economy and health of Grayson. But does it threaten the soul? A Masadan would say yes, but they have built into their version of religion a view of women as the source of the Abomination of the Desolation. Since Grayson's version of the religion does not seem to treat women with anything worse than an overprotectiveness as the result of the heavy metal toll on reproduction (which is being fixed by the Alliance), I only see this as a cultural problem that does not involve peril to the soul.

In purest terms, we do not know whether there will at some point be a counter-Reformation. If it happens we expect Honor, or her descendants, to fight against it.
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Re: Grayson - We Shall Overcome
Post by stewart   » Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:40 pm

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tlb wrote:
cthia wrote:Was it the right thing to do? From the viewpoint of an infidel, almost certainly. But was it, from the viewpoint of the heart, mind and soul of Grayson herself? Many Graysons don't like the Mayhew Restoration and its reforms. They charge Benjamin with overstepping his bounds as the Protector. They feel that an alliance should not have come at the expense of Grayson's soul.

There are two separate questions here: one is the Alliance and the second is the Mayhew Restoration.

With regards to the Mayhew Restoration. Since, in principle, it is a reversion to the historical balance of power; I expect that the persistence of the changes will depend on the relative power of any future Protector and the Council. In itself this question has nothing to do with Grayson's soul.

As pointed out the Alliance has brought major benefits to the economy and health of Grayson. But does it threaten the soul? A Masadan would say yes, but they have built into their version of religion a view of women as the source of the Abomination of the Desolation. Since Grayson's version of the religion does not seem to treat women with anything worse than an overprotectiveness as the result of the heavy metal toll on reproduction (which is being fixed by the Alliance), I only see this as a cultural problem that does not involve peril to the soul.

In purest terms, we do not know whether there will at some point be a counter-Reformation. If it happens we expect Honor, or her descendants, to fight against it.



------------

The basic question for the Grayson citizen is how the new conditions and realities affect their "Test".
The Test of Life has always been an individual response with individual accountability, as Howard Clinkscales showed when his circumstances and preconceptions were challenged in Honor of the Queen, and how Alfredo Yu and Warner Caslet were accepted as they took up their own "challenge and test" in their new star nation.

-- Just a thought

-- Stewart
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Re: Grayson - We Shall Overcome
Post by Nico   » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:24 am

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I think that a much more comprehensive analysis of Grayson, its culture, the differences between Masadan and Graysonic culture, AND the impact that increased exposure to and contact with the wider galactic community (and especially Manticore) have had on Graysonic society, is required to answer the question of whether Grayson can expect a backlash.

Do remember that such a backlash had already occurred and that the great majority of Graysons reacted with revulsion and outrage against both the assassination attempt on Benjamin Mayhew and later on Honor. That reaction on both occasions can be seen as a pretty good indicator of the direction that popular opinion on Grayson would take in the year's to come.

Still, popular opinion can and does change quite quickly, so we cannot take it at face value. Factors such as economic prosperity, political stability, and in a particularly religious society such as Grayson, the guidance of religious leaders do influence public attitudes and opinion.

Honor set a fantastic example for other Manticorans on Grayson to follow wrt religion. Her insistence on showing respect to the Grayson faith without compromising her own had won her a lot of respect among the Grayson populace AND the Church leadership. Graysons understand religious integrity. Her sacrifices - both personal and career-wise - have shown the Graysons that she, and by proxy the average Manticoran, can be depended on, no matter how different they are from Graysons. Graysons understand sacrifice.

Moreover, Graysonic history with the Masadan fanatics have imbued a deep and lasting dislike of religious fanaticism within the Grayson psyche. As long as the Manticorans they regularly encounter respect the Grayson faith, I don't think that religion will be a contributor to a serious backlash.

I'm not going to go into the economic, political and other social aspects in this post. Suffice to say that I don't think a backlash is in the works for the immediate to medium future.
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Re: Grayson - We Shall Overcome
Post by tlb   » Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:49 am

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Nico wrote:Do remember that such a backlash had already occurred and that the great majority of Graysons reacted with revulsion and outrage against both the assassination attempt on Benjamin Mayhew and later on Honor. That reaction on both occasions can be seen as a pretty good indicator of the direction that popular opinion on Grayson would take in the year's to come.

The backlash, such as it was, predated the alliance with Manticore and was mostly a personal reaction by cousin Jared against Benjamin's foreign education, which caused him to aid a Masadan fifth column. That resulted in an assassination attempt against both Honor and the Protector. Jared had inherited the position of Maccabeus from his father.

The only other assassination attempt on Honor was the nanotech controlled shooting on the bridge by Honor's aide; the faked hanging of Honor that aroused so much feeling was an execution, not an assassination.
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Re: Grayson - We Shall Overcome
Post by Jonathan_S   » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:00 pm

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tlb wrote:
Nico wrote:Do remember that such a backlash had already occurred and that the great majority of Graysons reacted with revulsion and outrage against both the assassination attempt on Benjamin Mayhew and later on Honor. That reaction on both occasions can be seen as a pretty good indicator of the direction that popular opinion on Grayson would take in the year's to come.

The backlash, such as it was, predated the alliance with Manticore and was mostly a personal reaction by cousin Jared against Benjamin's foreign education, which caused him to aid a Masadan fifth column. That resulted in an assassination attempt against both Honor and the Protector. Jared had inherited the position of Maccabeus from his father.

The only other assassination attempt on Honor was the nanotech controlled shooting on the bridge by Honor's aide; the faked hanging of Honor that aroused so much feeling was an execution, not an assassination.
What about Burdette's attempt to have Honor killed?

Taking out her pinnace and sending attackers in to shoot the survivors (killing Reverend Hanks). I'd call that a 3rd assassination attempt...
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Re: Grayson - We Shall Overcome
Post by tlb   » Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:04 pm

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Nico wrote:Do remember that such a backlash had already occurred and that the great majority of Graysons reacted with revulsion and outrage against both the assassination attempt on Benjamin Mayhew and later on Honor. That reaction on both occasions can be seen as a pretty good indicator of the direction that popular opinion on Grayson would take in the year's to come.

tlb wrote:The backlash, such as it was, predated the alliance with Manticore and was mostly a personal reaction by cousin Jared against Benjamin's foreign education, which caused him to aid a Masadan fifth column. That resulted in an assassination attempt against both Honor and the Protector. Jared had inherited the position of Maccabeus from his father.

The only other assassination attempt on Honor was the nanotech controlled shooting on the bridge by Honor's aide; the faked hanging of Honor that aroused so much feeling was an execution, not an assassination.
Jonathan_S wrote:What about Burdette's attempt to have Honor killed?

Taking out her pinnace and sending attackers in to shoot the survivors (killing Reverend Hanks). I'd call that a 3rd assassination attempt...

Quite right, sorry about that.
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Re: Grayson - We Shall Overcome
Post by stewart   » Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:35 pm

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tlb wrote:"Nico"]Do remember that such a backlash had already occurred and that the great majority of Graysons reacted with revulsion and outrage against both the assassination attempt on Benjamin Mayhew and later on Honor. That reaction on both occasions can be seen as a pretty good indicator of the direction that popular opinion on Grayson would take in the year's to come.

tlb wrote:The backlash, such as it was, predated the alliance with Manticore and was mostly a personal reaction by cousin Jared against Benjamin's foreign education, which caused him to aid a Masadan fifth column. That resulted in an assassination attempt against both Honor and the Protector. Jared had inherited the position of Maccabeus from his father.

The only other assassination attempt on Honor was the nanotech controlled shooting on the bridge by Honor's aide; the faked hanging of Honor that aroused so much feeling was an execution, not an assassination.
Jonathan_S wrote:What about Burdette's attempt to have Honor killed?

Taking out her pinnace and sending attackers in to shoot the survivors (killing Reverend Hanks). I'd call that a 3rd assassination attempt...

Quite right, sorry about that.[/quote]


-----------

By now, with (1) Honor on "leave of absence" from uniform and full-time Steadholder and Mommy, and (2) the Grayson treecat colony at 50-75 cats, Mueller, Burdette and company are likely being VERY circumspect in their public actions as they know (and all other Graysons know) that their emotional patterns are being read by any available 'cat within range. There would be at least 3 'cats present anytime the Keys are in chambers (Nimitz, Benjamin's guardian and the Chancellor's guardian).
The only "safe" place is within their own steadings.

-- Stewart
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Re: Grayson - We Shall Overcome
Post by Fox2!   » Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:20 pm

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stewart wrote:The only "safe" place is within their own steadings.

-- Stewart


Can the Protector stage a "Progress" through the various holdings, giving at least his tree cat the opportunity to be near the Steadholders at a time they think they are otherwise safe? Alternatively, pull a Loius XIV and require the Steadholders to spend a specified minimum amount of time at the capital?
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