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Rosie Re-reads, Part 1: "On Basilisk Station"

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Re: Rosie Re-reads, Part 1: "On Basilisk Station"
Post by Jonathan_S   » Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:54 am

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WeberFan wrote:I read this post and then kept thinking about it... Something kept niggling in my mind... I am also re-reading the series and just started Honor Among Enemies. Honor is arriving back in Manticoran space...

"She turned to the mirror and placed a black beret carefully on her head. The white beret which denoted a starship's commander was still packed away, waiting until she officially assumed command of her new ship, and she brushed the four gold stars on the left breast of her uniform. Each of them represented command of a hyper-capable vessel of the Queen's Navy, and despite all her ambiguity, she felt bone-deep satisfaction at the thought that she would shortly add a fifth."

So her Q-ship will be her fifth hyper-capable ship... Let's see:
- Hawkwing
- Fearless
- Nike
- Q-ship

That only adds up to 4, so there has to be another... I noticed similar textev when she got Nike in The Short Victorious War (she had 3 stars when she got Nike)...

"She inhaled deeply, squaring her shoulders, then touched the three gold stars embroidered on her tunic, and deep down inside something laughed at her own reactions. Each of those stars represented a previous hyper-capable command..."

We also have clear textev in OBS that states Hawkwing was her first hyper-capable ship: "She'd thought she'd died and gone to heaven when they gave her Hawkwing, for the middle-aged destroyer had been her very first hyper-capable command..."

What am I missing?

You missed that there were 2 cruisers named Fearless. The old Couragous-class CL from OBS and the big modern Star Knight-class from HotQ.

HMS Hawkwing (DD-1213)
HMS Fearless (CL-56)
HMS Fearless (CA-286)
HMS Nike (BC-413)
HMHMC Wayfarer Q-ship

However I swear there's another spot in the books where David did mess up the count (or it may have been in the initial print run of HAE and the ebook corrected it)
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Re: Rosie Re-reads, Part 1: "On Basilisk Station"
Post by Jonathan_S   » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:11 am

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Jonathan_S wrote:
WeberFan wrote:[/snip]
So her Q-ship will be her fifth hyper-capable ship... Let's see:
- Hawkwing
- Fearless
- Nike
- Q-ship

That only adds up to 4, so there has to be another... I noticed similar textev when she got Nike in The Short Victorious War (she had 3 stars when she got Nike)...[/snip]
What am I missing?

You missed that there were 2 cruisers named Fearless. The old Couragous-class CL from OBS and the big modern Star Knight-class from HotQ.

HMS Hawkwing (DD-1213)
HMS Fearless (CL-56)
HMS Fearless (CA-286)
HMS Nike (BC-413)
HMHMC Wayfarer Q-ship

However I swear there's another spot in the books where David did mess up the count (or it may have been in the initial print run of HAE and the ebook corrected it)
And I found the glitch - it was in the next book, In Enemy Hands.

She lifted Nimitz to her shoulder, brushed her fingers over her braided hair and beret once more, and then, without even realizing it, ran those same fingers lightly over the six gold stars-each indicating a different hyper-capable command-on the breast of her tunic as she turned to face the hatch.

And lest you think David just snuck in an extra stint as captain for Honor between those 2 books (say putting it in his Honorverse bible as a short story to be written later) he also says the chapter before

Alvarez lay quietly in her parking orbit, her double-ended, hammerhead hull's sleek flanks gleaming with the green and white lights of an "anchored" starship. At just over three hundred and forty thousand tons, she was less than five percent the size of Honor's last command, but HMS Wayfarer had been a converted merchant ship-a huge, slow, unarmored bulk-carrier's hull with weapons crammed in wherever space permitted.

So Wayfarer, established in HAE to be her 5th command, was clearly stated in IEH to be her previous command. So the 6th star is inconsistent with the established facts. (And it can't even be for her next/current command because she wasn't a starship's captain in IEH, she was commanding the squadron)


Now I believe she would later pick up a 6th star in At All Costs when Beth made her honorary captain of HMS Unconquered. But that's far beyond this confusing bit of text.
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Re: Rosie Re-reads, Part 1: "On Basilisk Station"
Post by cthia   » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:45 pm

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Was any of Honor's close inner circle actually from Sphinx? I don't think she ever developed a friendship that was actually from Sphinx. Anyone ever in any of her crews? Seems like Sphinxians would gravitate to her and she to them, or the Admiralty would seed a few on her ships just on GP. AIM?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Rosie Re-reads, Part 1: "On Basilisk Station"
Post by Weird Harold   » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:29 pm

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WeberFan wrote:What am I missing?


The other Fearless.
.
.
.
Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: Rosie Re-reads, Part 1: "On Basilisk Station"
Post by saber964   » Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:49 pm

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Honor Harrington six hyper capable commands are;
HMS Hawkwing
HMS Fearless (CL-56)
HMS Fearless (CA-286)
HMS Nike
HMS Wayfarer
HMS Unconquered
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Re: Rosie Re-reads, Part 1: "On Basilisk Station"
Post by roseandheather   » Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:51 pm

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Chapters 14-16

I really, deeply, profoundly loathe Denver Summervale.

Not terribly keen on this "Canning" guy and his handler, either.

Dominica Santos, on the other hand, I love. I'd forgotten how much I did love her until this re-read, to be honest - and I'm especially fond of her here, reaching out to her Skipper to see if she can help heal the divide between her Captain and her XO.

So, inevitably, RFC kills her. :evil:

Also, Scotty is great.

Next time: Rose gets very, very angry on Estelle's behalf. So does Honor Harrington. Also, Rose shouts at RFC a bit, because Reasons. :mrgreen:
~*~


I serve at the pleasure of President Pritchart.

Javier & Eloise
"You'll remember me when the west wind moves upon the fields of barley..."
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Re: Rosie Re-reads, Part 1: "On Basilisk Station"
Post by drothgery   » Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:40 pm

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roseandheather wrote:So, inevitably, RFC kills her. :evil:

And it isn't until Harold Tschu in HAE that Honor has another memorable Chief Engineer. And you know what happened there ...
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Re: Rosie Re-reads, Part 1: "On Basilisk Station"
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:22 am

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drothgery wrote:
roseandheather wrote:So, inevitably, RFC kills her. :evil:

And it isn't until Harold Tschu in HAE that Honor has another memorable Chief Engineer. And you know what happened there ...

I wonder if they were both wearing red shorts?
The only problem with quotes on the internet is that you can't authenticate them -- Abraham Lincoln
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Re: Rosie Re-reads, Part 1: "On Basilisk Station"
Post by cthia   » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:57 am

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drothgery wrote:
roseandheather wrote:So, inevitably, RFC kills her. :evil:

And it isn't until Harold Tschu in HAE that Honor has another memorable Chief Engineer. And you know what happened there ...
fallsfromtrees wrote:I wonder if they were both wearing red shorts?

I think perhaps the Weber household always happened to run short on coffee when penning the engineers' fate which made the RFC personality irritable, which were always a livable lot when David Weber constructed them. It was as if RFC had a bone to pick with Scotty of the Enterprise and took it out on Honor's engineers. I once remember wondering exactly what it was in RFC's head that insisted that the engineers always had to die as if it were the engineers, and not the butlers "who did it." LOL

Then a possible motive hit me. On the Enterprise during serious battles, Engineering always took a serious hit. Blast doors were always closing to contain the damage. Plasma leakage, gas spewing. Fires burning. And what's that awful smell... oh, bodies burnt and charred by high voltages. Inexperienced crew were seen running in some scenes. Engineering itself is just a dangerous place, especially on Honor's ships, and if Honor is going to survive, then realism passes the buck on to the engineer in Engineering. To keep Honor's ships patched up the engineers themselves always had to become the duct tape.

We can't have our cake, and the engineer too.

It is how I had to justify it in my own head to make sense of it all and get over it anyways.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Rosie Re-reads, Part 1: "On Basilisk Station"
Post by Senior Chief   » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:02 pm

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And of course in the WET navy... Torpedo hits are all below the waterline which is where the heart of every Navy ship resides... Engineering. WWI & WWII hardly any engineering survivors when the ship gets hit and sinks. Perhaps this is the author's reality of history coming into play.
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