The logistics of travel and immigration

Eyal wrote:

cthia wrote:Can you imagine what the Harringtons had to endure emigrating to Sphinx? I wonder what the citizenship requirements and the citizenship test is like? I am sure that questions include familiarity with the local fauna. You certainly wouldn't want your new immigrants to become "tourist food" for the hexapumas. There is probably a recent clause inserted that demand one's acknowledgement of the treecats as a sentient species. And denies citizenship if one resists.

But in those tests and immigration requirements, I can't believe a planet with such a higher G gravity doesn't at least enquire if not require one's proof that one can survive its gravity at length without succumbing to its long term effects and possibly becoming casualty(s) and or burdens to the planet.

Unless, of course, that the Harringtons did divulge that information to the "proper authorities" who in turn guarantee privacy and a somewhat nondiscriminatory policy -- one whose acceptance is not predicated on gene mods.

Certainly planets with 1.5 G and above like San Martin's 2.7 G could be considered irresponsible in accepting someone's application for citizenship if they are normally aspirated humans.

Work visas and tourists are probably severely limited or restricted in some form or fashion.

I'd assume immigration was handled on a Kingdom rather than planetary level, so it's unlikely you'd need to demonstrate an ability to survive on Sphinx specifically in order to get citizenship (Manticore is a lot more hospitable).

Actually they could emigrate to Sphinx because of their professional specialities (Veterinary and Biology) and because of their genetic modifications (adapted to heavy gravity).

Didn't the govenment pay a lot their expenses due to the Harringtons being having such needed skills and having the gene mods was a very helpful bonus

Dauntless wrote:Didn't the govenment pay a lot their expenses due to the Harringtons being having such needed skills and having the gene mods was a very helpful bonus

No, they paid for most of the trip themselves.

saber964 wrote:

Dauntless wrote:Didn't the govenment pay a lot their expenses due to the Harringtons being having such needed skills and having the gene mods was a very helpful bonus

No, they paid for most of the trip themselves.

They were Yeomen, which indicated that they paid for their travel and had some money to buy land.

Eyal wrote:

cthia wrote:Can you imagine what the Harringtons had to endure emigrating to Sphinx? I wonder what the citizenship requirements and the citizenship test is like? I am sure that questions include familiarity with the local fauna. You certainly wouldn't want your new immigrants to become "tourist food" for the hexapumas. There is probably a recent clause inserted that demand one's acknowledgement of the treecats as a sentient species. And denies citizenship if one resists.

But in those tests and immigration requirements, I can't believe a planet with such a higher G gravity doesn't at least enquire if not require one's proof that one can survive its gravity at length without succumbing to its long term effects and possibly becoming casualty(s) and or burdens to the planet.

Unless, of course, that the Harringtons did divulge that information to the "proper authorities" who in turn guarantee privacy and a somewhat nondiscriminatory policy -- one whose acceptance is not predicated on gene mods.

Certainly planets with 1.5 G and above like San Martin's 2.7 G could be considered irresponsible in accepting someone's application for citizenship if they are normally aspirated humans.

Work visas and tourists are probably severely limited or restricted in some form or fashion.

I'd assume immigration was handled on a Kingdom rather than planetary level, so it's unlikely you'd need to demonstrate an ability to survive on Sphinx specifically in order to get citizenship (Manticore is a lot more hospitable).

Hornblower wrote:Actually they could emigrate to Sphinx because of their professional specialities (Veterinary and Biology) and because of their genetic modifications (adapted to heavy gravity).

You and I as readers know that, but my question was whether the knowledge was imparted to the government of Sphinx before emigrating, being that textev says that they wanted to keep such facts closed to "strangers."

I can't imagine a planet not insisting on firsthand knowledge of one's gene mods -- especially in light of the fears and paranoia of the Final War.

Technically, I imagine that undesirable gene mods would be treated no differently than dangerous viruses or diseases.

Same as currently with MA mods I'd presume. I'm not so certain that everyone would be willing to accept MAlign emigrants.

In the paranoid atmosphere at the time, I personally wouldn't be surprised if some planets required DNA samples. Proof in some form or fashion.

Theemile wrote:

saber964 wrote: quote="Dauntless"]Didn't the govenment pay a lot their expenses due to the Harringtons being having such needed skills and having the gene mods was a very helpful bonus

No, they paid for most of the trip themselves.

They were Yeomen, which indicated that they paid for their travel and had some money to buy land.[/quote]

No, they received land credits equal to the cost of the ticket.

saber964 wrote:

Theemile wrote:
They were Yeomen, which indicated that they paid for their travel and had some money to buy land.

No, they received land credits equal to the cost of the ticket.

It's mostly both.

Excerpts from OBS

Nobles: it wasn't a closed nobility, for even vaster tracts had remained unclaimed. The new colonists who could pay their own passage received the equivalent of its cost in land credits on their arrival, and those who could contribute more than the cost of passage were guaranteed the right to purchase additional land at just under half its "book" value. The opportunity to become nobles in their own right [...] They'd arrived to claim and expand their guaranteed credit, and many of those so-called "second shareholders" had become earls and even dukes in their own right.

Yeomen: Of those who hadn't been able to pay their own passage in full, many had been able to pay much of the cost and so had received the difference in land credits on arrival.[...] Those people had become Manticore's freeholding yeomen, like Honor's own ancestors,

Zero-balancers: Yet for all that, the majority of the new arrivals had been "zero-balancers," individuals unable to pay any of their passage, who, in many cases, arrived on Manticore wearing all they owned upon their backs.

So Honor's ancestors had been able to pay for some, but not all, of their passage costs (making them yeomen, not minor nobility) but like everyone who could pay something towards the cost they received land of equivalent value.
Given the size of the Harrington homestead they must have been able to cover a fair chunk of the transit costs for goods and family.



And on a tangent I assume Manticore had to have some measures in place to prevent gaming that system.
The obvious one being to pool an extended family's money to initially send as few people as allowed in order to achieve or maximize surplus funds to cash in on the 50% discounted lands (and gain a noble title). Then you could leverage those additional holdings to finance bringing the rest of the family over later...

The immigration document David and Bu9 put together explains this in more detail.

cthia,

You don't seem to be grasping the fact that they came from _Meyerdahl_. While there may or may not have been institutional memory of the fact that the First Wave colonists were modded for the environment, the simple fact that the family had survived there for several generations would be all the evidence required. In fact, i would put down real cash money on the proposition that Meyerdahl and other high-g planets were specifically targeted for recruitment when looking for new settlers for Sphinx. Suggesting, BTW, that the modern population has an interesting brew of designed and natural adaptations bouncing off each other. Probably not surprising that Alison has been keeping busy.

cthia wrote:Can you imagine what the Harringtons had to endure emigrating to Sphinx? I wonder what the citizenship requirements and the citizenship test is like? I am sure that questions include familiarity with the local fauna. You certainly wouldn't want your new immigrants to become "tourist food" for the hexapumas. There is probably a recent clause inserted that demand one's acknowledgement of the treecats as a sentient species. And denies citizenship if one resists.

But in those tests and immigration requirements, I can't believe a planet with such a higher G gravity doesn't at least enquire if not require one's proof that one can survive its gravity at length without succumbing to its long term effects and possibly becoming casualty(s) and or burdens to the planet.

Unless, of course, that the Harringtons did divulge that information to the "proper authorities" who in turn guarantee privacy and a somewhat nondiscriminatory policy -- one whose acceptance is not predicated on gene mods.

Certainly planets with 1.5 G and above like San Martin's 2.7 G could be considered irresponsible in accepting someone's application for citizenship if they are normally aspirated humans.

Work visas and tourists are probably severely limited or restricted in some form or fashion.

cthia wrote:

Eyal wrote:I'd assume immigration was handled on a Kingdom rather than planetary level, so it's unlikely you'd need to demonstrate an ability to survive on Sphinx specifically in order to get citizenship (Manticore is a lot more hospitable).

Hornblower wrote:Actually they could emigrate to Sphinx because of their professional specialities (Veterinary and Biology) and because of their genetic modifications (adapted to heavy gravity).

You and I as readers know that, but my question was whether the knowledge was imparted to the government of Sphinx before emigrating, being that textev says that they wanted to keep such facts closed to "strangers."

I can't imagine a planet not insisting on firsthand knowledge of one's gene mods -- especially in light of the fears and paranoia of the Final War.

Technically, I imagine that undesirable gene mods would be treated no differently than dangerous viruses or diseases.

Same as currently with MA mods I'd presume. I'm not so certain that everyone would be willing to accept MAlign emigrants.

In the paranoid atmosphere at the time, I personally wouldn't be surprised if some planets required DNA samples. Proof in some form or fashion.

Louis R wrote:cthia,

You don't seem to be grasping the fact that they came from _Meyerdahl_. While there may or may not have been institutional memory of the fact that the First Wave colonists were modded for the environment, the simple fact that the family had survived there for several generations would be all the evidence required. In fact, i would put down real cash money on the proposition that Meyerdahl and other high-g planets were specifically targeted for recruitment when looking for new settlers for Sphinx. Suggesting, BTW, that the modern population has an interesting brew of designed and natural adaptations bouncing off each other. Probably not surprising that Alison has been keeping busy.

Even if heavy gravity planets were not specifically targeted ( which would make total sense, btw), those that applied were most likely weighted towards those with heavy gravity experience. Just like when you place a job offer for an IT position, you tend to get resumes of people with computer knowledge.