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Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...

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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Weird Harold   » Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:44 am

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Annachie wrote:Kind of like regent into Queen by aclaim.


That sort of ignores Honor's personality: She would decline the Crown much as Geo Washington did.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by munroburton   » Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:52 am

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Potato wrote:
munroburton wrote:I believe the reference to Honor taking precedence over everyone else applies only to the new Imperial Parliament - IIRC, she was something like the first or third ducal appointment to that body.

The old rules would still apply to the succession - which, as Weird Harold pointed out, is different from the order of precedence.


Honor takes precedence over most of the Lords due to her being a Steadholder. This was mentioned as far back as The Short Victorious War.


Aye, a Steadholder has more power than any Dukes of the Star Kingdom. However, it is not a Manticoran title and should not affect internal orders of precedence and succession - it'll be counted as a 'very important visitor from foreign countries'(which in the UK, comes after the Dukes and sons of royal Dukes).

You've indirectly raised another point there - Honor is a Steadholder. Steadholders are only allowed a limited quantity of military retainers. Honor's coronation as Queen(and Empress) of Manticore would violate this provision of Grayson constitution.

I suppose someone will have to carry out an EE strike on Grayson as well, exterminating the Mayhews, every other Steadholder and all their successors. Unfortunately, even that won't work, as Grayson retained an exclusively male succession for the Protectorship.

Weird Harold wrote:
munroburton wrote:I believe the reference to Honor taking precedence over everyone else applies only to the new Imperial Parliament - IIRC, she was something like the first or third ducal appointment to that body.


The reference I know of came before the discovery of the Lynx terminus:

"Your Grace," he said, holding out his hand, and she hid a small smile as she crossed the bright, wood-paneled office to take it. The protocol was just a bit complicated, and she wondered if Admiral Caparelli had consulted the experts on how to handle it or if he was simply feeling his way along as he went.

In every way but one—well, two, actually—she was now this man's superior. In Yeltsin, of course, where she was Steadholder Harrington, that had been true for years. But now she was Duchess Harrington here in the Star Kingdom, as well. Her good eye gleamed with pure, unadulterated gloating as she recalled the stifled expressions on quite a few noble lords and ladies as the woman they had excluded from their midst was seated among them as the most junior duchess of the Star Kingdom . . . who just happened to outrank ninety-plus percent of the rest of the peerage. Despite lingering doubts over the wisdom of creating her new title, she had to admit that the looks on the faces of Stefan Young, Twelfth Earl of North Hollow, and Michael Janvier, Ninth Baron of High Ridge, were going to remain two of her fondest memories when (or if) she reached her dotage.


But that ranking is social ranking, not Line of Succession ranking. I think part of the confusion may come from the USA's Designated Survivor Line of Succession which is based on "Office Held" rather than "Blood Inheritance" as Royal Succession usually is.

There's definitely a later reference. Before the Lynx Terminus, there was only the Kingdom's Parliament we all know and love so much; after the Talbott constitutional convention there was to be a new Imperial Parliament created above and in addition to the Royal Parliament.

HoS:
The supreme legislative body of the Star Empire will be the Imperial Parliament, which will meet in a new Imperial Hall of Parliament in Landing on Manticore. Based closely on the structure of the original Parliament of the Star Kingdom, but with membership drawn from the entire Empire, the Imperial Parliament is still in the early stages of formation. In the meantime, the Parliament of the Old Star Kingdom continues to act in a caretaker role for the Empire as a whole.


I'll have a look for the textev later, there definitely was something implying that Honor was one of the first peers appointed to that new body and thus had become the Star Empire's most highest-ranking duchess, probably whilst still being the Star Kingdom's newest duchess and forever recognised as a junior peerage, way behind all the First and Second Shareholders' descendants.

Precedence is always a complicated mess.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by George J. Smith   » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:04 am

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Honor is related by blood to one of the original settlers, therefore she would be in line to inherit if every other person related by blood to any of the original settlers was eliminated.

Textev is in the Stephanie Harrington books.

And Honor herself mentioned the lineage connection to Stephanie and Karl.

Her gggggggreat whatever grandmother (Stephanie) married Karl who was the son of an original settler, even though he passed the title to one of his siblings, the blood line is still there.
Last edited by George J. Smith on Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:25 am

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Weird Harold wrote:
Annachie wrote:Kind of like regent into Queen by aclaim.


That sort of ignores Honor's personality: She would decline the Crown much as Geo Washington did.

Not if the overarching factor is duty. If presented to Honor "as it is her duty" would cause her to hit that "line" like a shark in heat (pardon the pun).

Remember, the "call of duty" was the lure Grayson used to solicit her back.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Annachie   » Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:04 am

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Not quoting WW or cthia, but I think the only person who could really answer if Honor would take the crown in such circumstances is RFC.

Wonder if Nimitz could be persuaded to take it, thus making Honor the royal Pet ;p

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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:01 am

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Annachie wrote:As I said, it would be because she held the place together.

Kind of like regent into Queen by acclaim.

Indeed Annachie. I like the way you think.


Damn, the subtle uses of that MAlign control tec can be nasty.

Get a mole in to the office somewhere, inplant the target with a "automatically sign when you smell this on something with that colour on it" or similar.
(Ok stretching, but you get the idea)

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Yes it can be. Especially as a native tool in Aldona's arsenal.

I sure do know what you mean. Heck yea! Suddenly, sheepherding of the Herculean kind doesn't seem so implausible. I'm gobsmacked!

It all falls under the subtle applications of their technology — a surface barely scratched claims Anisimovna.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:11 am

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Annachie wrote:Cthia, have you ever introduced your neice to The Prince by Machiavelli?

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Aside:
Annachie wrote:Cthia, have you ever introduced your niece to The Prince by Machiavelli?

Sorry Annachie. I should have shared this with you long ago when I asked her. I totally forgot. What she said some time ago and reminded me of this morn, was that there are five books set on a small shelf against the wall in the War Room (Chess Room). My niece decorated that room with war type memorabilia from the ages. Sun Tzu The Art of War, Machiavelli's Art of War, and his "The Prince" comprises three of them. She says she loves them and reminds me that my sister is always on her about "not getting away with her latest Machiavellian schemes to overthrow her authority." My sister has all three of those volumes sitting on one of her coffee tables. That's where Tierney first eyed them she says.

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Last edited by cthia on Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:21 am

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Weird Harold wrote:
cthia wrote:Email from my niece, who is turning coat... LOL

"Is it possible that a Winton contingency plan to ensure succession under all circumstances includes the freezing of Winton blood?"

Doh!

You turn coat! Why, I oughta...


That would be easier to dispose of or adulterate than killing off the Dynasty "Root and Branch"

Plus the Beowulf Code prohibits the cloning or posthumous conception for the purposes of inheritance -- as detailed in discussions on the succession of Harrington Stedding when Honor was presumed dead.

The thoughts flushed out of my niece early this morn "before she even brushed her teeth" (croaks my sister) LOL ...

I knew someone would bring that up! Yes, however, I'm certain that the Beowulf Code never took into account that that might someday be the only option. In absence of any other Winton blood, unerringly standing on tradition and law seems illogical. Much as when law and tradition was usurped on Grayson in the not so rare instances when a female became Steadholder. Suddenly, any frozen Winton blood becomes like manna. Even a drop. If that child was subsequently birthed could cause a constitutional crisis under the circumstances. That decree was made in the spirit of protecting the tradition not in killing it. You live by the law, not die by it. The law is not malleable, people are. And since people make the laws, laws are.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by saber964   » Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:29 pm

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The problem is that there are potentially thousands of Winton family members in the line of succession. Let's not forget that Gwen Archer and Augustus Khuamalo are distantly related to QEIII. Plus let's not forget other branches of the Winton's. It would be something like the House of Windsor which has something like 250+ heirs to the throne in England alone before it jumps to the Royal family of Norway then jumps to Sweden then Germany then Russia then Greece then Italy then Spain then etc. Remember that WWI was basically a family squabble.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by kzt   » Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:26 pm

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Well, yeah, but you have actually read the books. The cthia and skimpers find that reading stuff all terribly boring, so when they come up with their ideas they are actually talking about a honorverse that has only some vague relationship to what David has actually written.
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