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Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...

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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:01 pm

cthia
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Potato wrote:
Loren Pechtel wrote:May I point out the standard tactic of the designated survivor? You always make sure that somebody in the line of succession is far away from any such event.

(Yes, there is a TV show on with this as a name. The show is named after the concept, I'm not basing this on the show. In fact, the show got it wrong--he shouldn't have been in Washington, period.)


I think that is the nub with all the objections. For example, Mike Henke is hundreds of light years away, and no prospect of immediate return to the Home System. So already, this scenario is on shaky ground.

Even supposing she is in system, there are simply too many branches of the government and dynasty that would be elsewhere at any given time. The grand dukes, MPs and Lords, and various branches of the Winton Dynasty would be scattered everywhere. And that is just political figures. Such an attack would also have to eliminate the military chain of command if it tried to restore order. To completely destroy all centers authority like what cthia is proposing would require unleashing so much firepower at so many targets that the Home System would be eliminated.
Again, my bold to call attention.

See!? Didn't I tell you!? I knew I'd be blamed for this schit. "Mom, cthia ain't proposing to destroy anything! It's this unseen, no one ever heard of entity called a MAlign. They're these genetic super soldiers."

I suspect I'll be hanged on the spot if she ever found out and I used the truth as a defense. Bypass family court.

This is a clean surgical cut at the coronary artery of the government, not simply a laceration as in the Havenite decapitation.

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Last edited by cthia on Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Weird Harold   » Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:18 pm

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cthia wrote:This is a clean surgical cut at the coronary government artery, not simply a laceration as in the Havenite decapitation.


How do you account for the inclusion of non-entities (in succession terms) like Gwen Archer? IIRC, that he's remotely related to Michelle Henke is revealed in his initial interview as her flag Lt. He's probably not an isolated case in being distantly related to the Queen and having a totally improbable place in the line of succession.

In order to kill off all of the formal line of succession, to get to Honor, you'd have to kill a lot of people who are not normally invited to royal family gatherings. People who aren't anywhere in the Manticore binary system with little prospects of getting leave from their far-flung assignments at the same time as everyone else in the same distant relationship to royalty.

King Ralph is a good analogy. There will be some distant relation who can be identify and crowned, even if you manage to turn all three planets of the Old Kingdom into glazed billiard balls. Not to mention all of the inter-marriages and familial relationships to Beowulf that would provide a technical base to maintain a very angry Navy that would be looking for the perpetrators. (More angry than they already are at the MAlign.)

The MAlign probably could devastate the Winton genome in some sort of EE violation; I think it would be the worst possible mistake they could make.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Daryl   » Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:53 pm

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Ok I'll bite.
If all that unlikely scenario came to pass, Honor should -
Ascertain who has the strongest claim to the Winton dynasty. Then declare martial law for a specific limited time in the name of that claimant.
Then set up a quick and dirty administration using the provincial remnants of the public administration.
Take command overall of the military for a defined period.
Subsequently kick ass of whoever did it.
Relinquish temporary power as soon as practicable as Pritchard did.

This would be workable as Honor would be the one person with the street cred to be accepted by the average citizen and her military peers.
The difficulty would be in getting Manticore to release her afterwards.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Fox2!   » Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:01 am

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Daryl wrote:Ok I'll bite.
If all that unlikely scenario came to pass, Honor should -
Ascertain who has the strongest claim to the Winton dynasty. Then declare martial law for a specific limited time in the name of that claimant.
Then set up a quick and dirty administration using the provincial remnants of the public administration.
Take command overall of the military for a defined period.
Subsequently kick ass of whoever did it.
Relinquish temporary power as soon as practicable as Pritchard did.

This would be workable as Honor would be the one person with the street cred to be accepted by the average citizen and her military peers.
The difficulty would be in getting Manticore to release her afterwards.


The Dictator, her duty done, would desire to retire to her estates like Cincinnatus. Or Washington. The people might not let her.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by George J. Smith   » Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:34 am

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Probably the only thing that could get everyone in the same place at the same time would be impeachment proceedings against Elizabeth, and you can absolutely guarantee that Honor would also be there for that, so she wouldn't be around to take over either.
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A man should live forever, or die in the attempt
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by crewdude48   » Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:59 am

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cthia wrote:
crewdude48 wrote:There is no way to do what you want and still leave Manticore a Star nation. Considering the level of technology and record keeping they have had since the formation of the Kingdom, they would be able to track down that accountant on Beowoulf who is Elizabeth's 14th cousin twice removed. (Ever seen King Ralph?)

Furthermore, considering that they have been at war, or preparing for war, for as long as they have been, they most likely fallow something similar to the "designated survivor" protocols that the US government fallows.

Assuming that Honor is the only survivor of every title of nobility, she could probably assert a claim of Queen, but the level of devastation required to get to that means that her subjects would be only a few thousand battered and dying people.
My bold to call attention.

I don't recall Detweiler requesting that that be a prerequisite, nor can I ever imagine — even in my wildest meanderings — that Detty'd even care.


You were the one who requested that prerequisite. In order for Honor to become Queen, there needs to be something for her to be queen of.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:21 pm

cthia
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cthia wrote:
crewdude48 wrote:There is no way to do what you want and still leave Manticore a Star nation. Considering the level of technology and record keeping they have had since the formation of the Kingdom, they would be able to track down that accountant on Beowoulf who is Elizabeth's 14th cousin twice removed. (Ever seen King Ralph?)

Furthermore, considering that they have been at war, or preparing for war, for as long as they have been, they most likely fallow something similar to the "designated survivor" protocols that the US government fallows.

Assuming that Honor is the only survivor of every title of nobility, she could probably assert a claim of Queen, but the level of devastation required to get to that means that her subjects would be only a few thousand battered and dying people.
My bold to call attention.

I don't recall Detweiler requesting that that be a prerequisite, nor can I ever imagine — even in my wildest meanderings — that Detty'd even care.
crewdude48 wrote:You were the one who requested that prerequisite. In order for Honor to become Queen, there needs to be something for her to be queen of.


Why wouldn't there be something for Honor to be Queen of, in at least the least sense? (MAlign humor.) Again, this was a precision strike at the coronary artery of the government's. Only!

The planet will still be there, along with its infrastructure. And 99.9999 percent of the population will still be there. The only people killed were the only people targeted — military targets. This was a humane EE violation, if there really is such a thing. It was certainly one that was metered. What do you know, in a strange turn of events, innocent bystanders were not a part of some piss-ant explanation of collateral damage for a change. And just perhaps, just maybe, these are MAlign seeds of goodwill sown towards its enemies. It is the same message that Honor sent Theisman, that Theisman accepted and reciprocated...

"We are willing to exercise restraint. But we don't have to."

Yet in this case, the message and example goes out as a warning to the rest of the galaxy. The lesson is too late for Manticore. You don't survive a direct lesson in "Advanced MA EE Strikes" - Anisimovna.

You should preorder her book. And the companion "Leveraging the Kill." (Available for preorder on the "Honorverse Bestseller List" soon). Manticore should have read their reading assignment. And just like the Havenites' own disadvantage of not being able to conceptually read the obvious implications of Apollo, so too it is with the Manticorans and MAlign technology.

"We rewrote the book on EEV."

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I understand some of you being appalled. Contemplation of such a complete and utter loss of key figures is like a blow to the stomach. I think what offends, if we're honest with ourselves and strip away all of the fake ablative armor, is the mere sobering of the very reality that it could happen.

It is like being caught in the deer-lights of possibility. Stuck, frozen. Immobile. Maybe even gripped with fear. And the anger that occurs along with simply a natural, yet illogical reflex action.

No one thought that the Battle of Manticore would happen, let alone the Second Battle. This thing I've laid out could happen. The implication of the "balance of power tipping technology" invites this scenario to the party. Anisimova is the Salamander's counterpart, and just like the Salamander, she also doesn't think that the surface of the strategic possibilities of their technology has even been scratched. The development of Apollo hasn't cornered the market on that.

The complete and utter stealth of MAlign tech moves EE violation capability into a new realm. Gone are the need for the crude and rude swarmings of a planet with saturating projectiles. The MA has designed weaponry to complement this new turn in warfare -- completely scientific, specialized computer controlled planetary bombardments offering optimum rewards meted out in precise surgical strikes. One of the bottlenecks in this "precision strike" MAlign tech was, surprisingly, the computer's software. They've got state of the art computers but software designers had fallen behind writing code for these beasts. Whose job is to accomplish only one thing. Completely Surgical and Precision Planetary Strikes. (CSAPPS)

These computers would analyze every ship in space, TVs (Threat Vectors) and their programmed reaction times and ability to intercept. (The MAlign have been sitting and watching.) These powerful computers would produce the vectors of optimum launch, producing this (CSAPPS) acronym for the named strike — as a factor of the hot, tree-like sap that is found from the melted debris at the sites of these strikes prompting them to become humorously known in MAlign parlance as Sap Suckers.



Edit: good will, goodwill

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Last edited by cthia on Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Weird Harold   » Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:39 pm

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cthia wrote:The planet will still be there, along with its infrastructure. And 99.9999 percent of the population will still be there. The only people killed were the only people targeted — military targets.


If that is true, Honor can't be Queen. You can't have a functional Empire and Honor as Queen. They are two exclusive results -- XOR not OR.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:57 pm

cthia
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Weird Harold wrote:
cthia wrote:The planet will still be there, along with its infrastructure. And 99.9999 percent of the population will still be there. The only people killed were the only people targeted — military targets.


If that is true, Honor can't be Queen. You can't have a functional Empire and Honor as Queen. They are two exclusive results -- XOR not OR.

Why not? Care to elucidate? If a similar fate befell the US and all else being equal — wouldn't simply a copy of The US Constitution promise survival?

Besides, cannot the remnants of this mess decide on their own what shall be their fate and who they'd like to carry on from there -- in an emergency? A catastrophic emergency that is threatening to kill the Manticore?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Weird Harold   » Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:03 pm

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cthia wrote:If that is true, Honor can't be Queen. You can't have a functional Empire and Honor as Queen. They are two exclusive results -- XOR not OR.

Why not? Care to elucidate? [/quote]

Honor is too far down the line of succession. G.W.E.N Archer is ahead of her and unlikely to be at a "Winton Family Gathering."

Honor might make it as part of a regency council, but before she could become Queen, you'd have to kill off one, if not both, of her spouses (who are ahead of her in the succession) along with half or more of the RMN officer corp.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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