Guns, Guns Guns

What does it say about Australia that our hero's are criminals

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Annachie wrote:What does it say about Australia that our hero's are criminals

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Almost inevitable, considering its history as a penal colony.

Michael Everett wrote:In both cases, it is predominantly cultural.

While that is at least partially true, does that affect the truth of the statement?

"get the government to 'ban the bad things' it turns a manageable problem into an ongoing catastrophe. Control moves from society to the criminal underground."
And:
"With crime goes violence, guns or no guns."

Was the statements i replied to.

Michael Everett wrote:In Japan, guns never really caught on outside the military.

Eh, try telling that to the anime and Japanese movie industry. I have a feeling they very much do not agree.
Yes, LESS "important" than cutting and slashing metal things, but certainly not a complete lack of interest or something.

Michael Everett wrote:and an entire generation grew up in a legal environment where if one member of a criminal group used a gun, the entire group got far heavier sentences.

Not exactly a bad way of minimizing the threat. It´s still the norm isn´t it?

Michael Everett wrote:Also, as previously noted, American heroes were lawmen or cowboys who were armed with guns.

And that justifies all those gunshops that skirt the laws to sell guns to people that even with current laws really are not supposed to be able to do so?
Or all the local authorities giving permits to friends of a friend or because "he´s such a good man, goes to church every sunday and helps every charity" excuses?

Michael Everett wrote:(muskets could be used with far less training than bows and arrows)

Also, musketbased warfare could be industrialised, gunpowder could be bought or made en masse(in fact, that was the best way to do it cheaply anyway), muskets needed mostly low precision manufacturing and the only fiddly parts could be made separately(and were small parts of the whole), and then the difference between bullets and arrows...

Making arrows was effectively 2 expert level crafts and some basic smithing, while anyone can do musket bullets with a simple tool over a campfire(that was in fact a common practice after most battles, to recover bullets from the battlefield), basically, you spend less than a minute on a bullet on average(potentially you can make dozens at a time even), but maybe 5-10 minutes and a lot of crafting skill on an arrow.

Also commonly overlooked is that musket warfare in part became "popular" because massed musket fire at close range adds the equivalent of shoving a flashbang stun grenade into the face of the enemy. Of course, when the effective range of musketfire increased in the late 16th, early 17th century, this became a bit harder to achieve(and many commanders didn´t even try, as they failed to understand this tactic), but training for and then using this tactic well was a huge part of why Sweden and Holland managed as well as they did in the 17th century.

And as late as during the US civil war, the rare few times the tactic was used correctly, it caused almost instant routs of the opposition at low or minimal own casualties.

Michael Everett wrote:while we in the UK had the sword-and-lance-using King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table (although Camelot was a very silly place)

That´s just because they didn´t realise pigeons are much faster than swallows.
(no seriously, pigeons have been clocked at average speeds over 80kph at distances of >1800km, and much faster on shorter distances, and there´s some neat vids online showing pigeons switching between outflying cars on highways, and exploiting the slipstreams of the cars)

or Robin Hood and his Merry Men (archers/staff fighters).

You mean this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ouXlsa0cTw

OMG! Some Germans want the right to bear arms!

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2016/08/21/german-far-right-leader-we-need-a-right-to-bear-arms-n2207905

smr wrote:OMG! Some Germans want the right to bear arms!

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2016/08/21/german-far-right-leader-we-need-a-right-to-bear-arms-n2207905

And it all ends up with the pathetic last line:
"It’s policies like this that liberal Democrats would love to implement here."


A completely baseless attempt at slander by implied association.
As usual by that kind of nitwit republican websites.

smr wrote:OMG! Some Germans want the right to bear arms!

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2016/08/21/german-far-right-leader-we-need-a-right-to-bear-arms-n2207905

Couple things here: The AfD is campaigning on a platform that includes making things look as bad as they possibly can. They are a very american party in that way, their willingness to abandon truth and realpolitik when populism and fear-mongering will get them what they want is notable in german politics.

What you are also missing, because you (and the website you're quoting, and the websites they're quoting) have no idea what they're talking about, is that Petry didn't actually call for the weapons laws to be loosened (or, as the article implies, be replaced with something similar to the US' second amendment). All she did say was that she understands and encourages people who want to apply for the "kleiner Waffenschein" (a limited license for guns shooting blanks and self-defence weaponry like pepper spray or tasers), and that the AfD was the only party not to call for gun laws to be tightened.

There's also no real increase in interest for deadly weapons, at least according to an interview with the President of the arms dealers association.

Tenshinai wrote:

Michael Everett wrote:and an entire generation grew up in a legal environment where if one member of a criminal group used a gun, the entire group got far heavier sentences.

Not exactly a bad way of minimizing the threat. It´s still the norm isn´t it?

Hopefully it is! Peer pressure can be a good tactic.

What might be nice is a real life stun gun of the type used often in SF stories. Stun them all and then sort them out then becomes viable. Of course, who was doing the sorting and their basis for doing it would matter. Tyrants could use this tactic also


From:

http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/08/16 ... sletterad=

Humans have a stunning capacity for self-delusion. We can convince ourselves that “it can’t happen here, and it can’t happen to me,” because bad things are something that happens to bad people in bad parts of town, or to people who take unnecessary risks.

That is not true, and never has been.

Reality always gets the last bite, and this one was very bad


From:

http://bearingarms.com/jenn-j/2016/08/1 ... sletterad=

Dems want more gun control laws, but the government already ignores many of the existing laws and the justice department fails to impose the recommended sentences for those found violating the laws they do choose to follow.
snip
Andrew Arulanandam with the NRA says there are close to 20,000 gun laws currently on the books in the U.S.

He provides his sources also. And:

So if Democrats want a compromise, here it is: follow every single gun law currently on the book. Punish criminals to the fullest extent of the law. Ensure convicted felons serve their entire sentence. Only give second chances when the guilty have served their debt to society.

Do that, then we’ll talk.

Allright The E, I wonder how you are going to react with this type of information.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/germany-warns-threat-more-500-potential-attackers-142053075.html

I won't mention the comments or paragraphs written in this forum. Nope that would not be right! I think Germany can take more Syrian refugees. I know your vaulted science is going to save the day! Remember have faith in the name of science. If you believed in God, I would say Pray! However, I understand your an atheist. As a result, I pray for you and your country.

Please remember that I advocate that believers, non believers, Christians, non Christians, members of western civilization, and others that we band together to fight this evil.

Any individual caught up in an attack by these nutters needs all our sympathy and assistance. Very hard to guard against, unlike more organised attacks.
We had a case here in Australia last night where a 22 year old attacked his 57 year old neighbour with a hunting knife, while shouting that Allah Akabar rubbish. He wanted the police to come and shoot him to get his 43 virgins or whatever. End result is that the neighbour is in hospital, the nutter is in clink with a headache due to a different neighbour hitting him over the head with a large board.

Just the same it isn't the Somme or D Day. Statistically these attacks are pin pricks that effect a very small percentage of people, so we shouldn't change our lives due to the possibility.
If all the 500 potential attackers armed themselves and attacked it wouldn't amount to a significant threat to Germany, and it is very likely that few will ever go that far anyway.

I can't speak for The E, but if the article was about Australia my reaction would be to have another beer and not let these idiots spook me.

smr wrote:Allright The E, I wonder how you are going to react with this type of information.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/germany-warns-threat-more-500-potential-attackers-142053075.html

I won't mention the comments or paragraphs written in this forum. Nope that would not be right! I think Germany can take more Syrian refugees. I know your vaulted science is going to save the day! Remember have faith in the name of science. If you believed in God, I would say Pray! However, I understand your an atheist. As a result, I pray for you and your country.

Please remember that I advocate that believers, non believers, Christians, non Christians, members of western civilization, and others that we band together to fight this evil.

Daryl wrote:I can't speak for The E, but if the article was about Australia my reaction would be to have another beer and not let these idiots spook me.

Yeah, same here. 500 people isn't even close to an existential threat (frankly, I expected the number to be somewhere in the low thousands); while they can certainly wreak havoc, the current pattern of terrorism in Germany points towards these people not being interested in anything over than random attacks that hit the headlines. They're not interested in long-term campaigns like the RAF or the various neonazi groups.

No, as always, the danger these groups represent doesn't rest in their capacity for and willingness to use violence, it's in the reaction they provoke from the public and the political establishment.