Guns, Guns Guns

SMR,
My take is that the situation is somewhat like comparing weather to climate, or the old parable about draining the swamp to get rid of the alligators.
If I was living in the US (or at least some parts of it), I too probably would get a legal concealable weapon for personal security in that environment, and maintain my training.
However the best long term solution overall would be to change that environment by restricting the access to guns and the overall number of guns.

Here in my environment I have a number of legal long guns (22, boltaction centrefires, and shotguns). These are not credible self defence weapons, being in a locked cabinet with the ammunition stored elsewhere. Not a problem though as our crime statistics indicate that my family and I are extremly unlikely to have any problems.
Thus the best solution is to have less guns for low lifes to acquire, probably too late for the US though.
I do have one question though. Why when guns are discussed does the word patriot come up? Is it patriotic to own guns?

When I worked at a petrol station, many moons ago, we were told that if anybody tried to rob the place, let them.

The joke was to ask them if they wanted fries with that.

In the long term it's cheaper to replace a few boxes of cigarette's now and again than to pay for a new staff member.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

Annachie wrote:When I worked at a petrol station, many moons ago, we were told that if anybody tried to rob the place, let them.

The joke was to ask them if they wanted fries with that.

In the long term it's cheaper to replace a few boxes of cigarette's now and again than to pay for a new staff member.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

Is it though for society?

If so then when should pay ISIS the ransoms they demand to get people captured back.

Sorry short term it is a good plan. Long term it is rewarding bad behavior.

I am not sure that is a good thing. Needless to say that is what I grew up getting drilled into my head.

T2M

I just point to Switzerland and say scoreboard. The public owns more weapons and has the lowest crime rate as well as murder rate.

Now, the local police have proven to me and my wife that a family's safety is in better off in our own hands. By the way, it was the local police that recommended that we get a concealed handgun licenses. In some ways it's not their fault due to staffing. Here in Houston, Texas, the police have less officers on duty than they had in 1980.

@Kiwi I did not include state regulations, county regulations, or city regulations...I just yahoo searched Federal regulations.

There are many factors that go into safety in America. Illegal immigrants that do not get deported due to sanctuary cities. In these sanctuaries, when illegal immigrant is pulled over or arrested they will not hold the illegal immigrants for ICE to deport. Second, the non enforcement of regulations that prohibit companies from hiring illegal immigrants. In this respect, I wish America would be more like Australia. How Australia handles illegal immigration by burning the boats and sending the illegal immigrants back to their native countries. The third point that would significantly reduce violence is enforcement of the current laws. We have laws on the books to double or triple jail time for using firearms in a crime and they are never applied! This has only gotten worse since the beginning of the Obama administration. They commuted some many drug sentences that these people are back out committing crimes. While your way of banning guns sounds good. That's just idea rather than reality. The gun does not cause crime but people do. We have these people that continually bleed for poor hispanics and poor black people. If you break the law and commit a crime, a person should do the time irregardless of economic background or race.

smr wrote:I just point to Switzerland and say scoreboard. The public owns more weapons and has the lowest crime rate as well as murder rate.

Oh good grief... why yes, please DO point to Switzerland!!!

If you want to enact gun regulations on the same level as Switzerland in the US you will have my enthusiastic support. Do you have any idea of the vast gulf between how seriously Switzerland regulates guns and how the US does???

The only reason they have lots of them is the little detail that they have mandatory militia service (which involves extensive discipline and training) and they're expected to keep their weapons at home and in reach. But that comes along with a lot of things the US gun advocates would lose their shit over if anyone tried to impose it on them.

Interesting article on the NRA. Stick with it, I found it informative. Even if I didn't agree with all of it.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35355319

Have fun,
T2M

20,000 regs doesnt sound right. 20,000 paragraphs/clauses maybe. link to source please? im curious to see how they define it. Wikipedia only notes 9 fed laws surrounding guns:
a tax law
a handgun buying age law
interstate commerce law on transport and sale
automatic gun regulation law
a law banning guns designed to bypass metal detectors
a background check law
a lapsed law about semiautomatics and ammoc capacity
a law preventing suing of gun store owners and manufacturers for negligence.

given this, i suspect your number is either state/county level, or paragraphs/clauses/words or some mix somehow.


And yeah, the Swiss is a great model, with great gun regulation laws, so please, do encourage the US to be more like the swiss.

wikipedia wrote:In 2005 over 10% of households contained handguns, compared to 18% of U.S. households that contained handguns. In 2005 almost 29% of households in Switzerland contained firearms of some kind, compared to almost 43% in the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

smr wrote:I just point to Switzerland and say scoreboard. The public owns more weapons and has the lowest crime rate as well as murder rate.


Snip

@Kiwi I did not include state regulations, county regulations, or city regulations...I just yahoo searched Federal regulations.

There are many factors that go into safety in America. Illegal immigrants that do not get deported due to sanctuary cities. In these sanctuaries, when illegal immigrant is pulled over or arrested they will not hold the illegal immigrants for ICE to deport. Second, the non enforcement of regulations that prohibit companies from hiring illegal immigrants. In this respect, I wish America would be more like Australia. How Australia handles illegal immigration by burning the boats and sending the illegal immigrants back to their native countries. The third point that would significantly reduce violence is enforcement of the current laws. We have laws on the books to double or triple jail time for using firearms in a crime and they are never applied! This has only gotten worse since the beginning of the Obama administration. They commuted some many drug sentences that these people are back out committing crimes. While your way of banning guns sounds good. That's just idea rather than reality. The gun does not cause crime but people do. We have these people that continually bleed for poor hispanics and poor black people. If you break the law and commit a crime, a person should do the time irregardless of economic background or race.

Obviously you have not been reading the entire forum. The topic has been brought up before in the forum. Switzerland has compulsory military service. The 20,000 federal laws and regulations was spit out on yahoo search engine. Probably a better way to check is with ATF and see how many Federal laws and regulations pertaining to gun control.

Spacekiwi wrote:20,000 regs doesnt sound right. 20,000 paragraphs/clauses maybe. link to source please? im curious to see how they define it. Wikipedia only notes 9 fed laws surrounding guns:
a tax law
a handgun buying age law
interstate commerce law on transport and sale
automatic gun regulation law
a law banning guns designed to bypass metal detectors
a background check law
a lapsed law about semiautomatics and ammoc capacity
a law preventing suing of gun store owners and manufacturers for negligence.

given this, i suspect your number is either state/county level, or paragraphs/clauses/words or some mix somehow.


And yeah, the Swiss is a great model, with great gun regulation laws, so please, do encourage the US to be more like the swiss.

wikipedia wrote:In 2005 over 10% of households contained handguns, compared to 18% of U.S. households that contained handguns. In 2005 almost 29% of households in Switzerland contained firearms of some kind, compared to almost 43% in the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

smr wrote:I just point to Switzerland and say scoreboard. The public owns more weapons and has the lowest crime rate as well as murder rate.


Snip

@Kiwi I did not include state regulations, county regulations, or city regulations...I just yahoo searched Federal regulations.

There are many factors that go into safety in America. Illegal immigrants that do not get deported due to sanctuary cities. In these sanctuaries, when illegal immigrant is pulled over or arrested they will not hold the illegal immigrants for ICE to deport. Second, the non enforcement of regulations that prohibit companies from hiring illegal immigrants. In this respect, I wish America would be more like Australia. How Australia handles illegal immigration by burning the boats and sending the illegal immigrants back to their native countries. The third point that would significantly reduce violence is enforcement of the current laws. We have laws on the books to double or triple jail time for using firearms in a crime and they are never applied! This has only gotten worse since the beginning of the Obama administration. They commuted some many drug sentences that these people are back out committing crimes. While your way of banning guns sounds good. That's just idea rather than reality. The gun does not cause crime but people do. We have these people that continually bleed for poor hispanics and poor black people. If you break the law and commit a crime, a person should do the time irregardless of economic background or race.

smr wrote:Obviously you have not been reading the entire forum. The topic has been brought up before in the forum. Switzerland has compulsory military service.

Which is what makes it a terrible example for your argument. So if you knew that why point to it as if it made your point?

The 20,000 federal laws and regulations was spit out on yahoo search engine.

And I think he's suggesting (and if he isn't I am) that you either didn't understand the search result or your result pointed you at some bogus source that doesn't know what it's talking about or is deliberately misrepresenting the facts. The NRA might like to throw numbers like that around but the claim is nonsensical.

http://www.brookings.edu/es/urban/publi ... nbook4.pdf

Hello....just go to the ATF and let's see how many laws and regulations pertain to gun control!

gcomeau wrote:

smr wrote:Obviously you have not been reading the entire forum. The topic has been brought up before in the forum. Switzerland has compulsory military service.

Which is what makes it a terrible example for your argument. So if you knew that why point to it as if it made your point?

The 20,000 federal laws and regulations was spit out on yahoo search engine.

And I think he's suggesting (and if he isn't I am) that you either didn't understand the search result or your result pointed you at some bogus source that doesn't know what it's talking about or is deliberately misrepresenting the facts. The NRA might like to throw numbers like that around but the claim is nonsensical.

http://www.brookings.edu/es/urban/publi ... nbook4.pdf