Guns, Guns Guns

biochem wrote:
At the risk of throwing gasoline on the fire, could you be more specific about which socialist countries? I've had quite a bit of experience with the Swedes for example and the majority (there are some exceptions) are very polite and willing to wait their turn.

Of course. In fact it´s even smart on a group level, as an orderly queue nearly always gets things done faster in total.

In the news here today, Ted Cruz has proclaimed that the incidence of rape went up significantly in Australia after our gun laws were tightened.
Never mind that the statistics don't say that at all, and that concealable handguns were banned before and after the changes.
Before the laws were tightened there were virtually no women "packing heat" with which they could defend their virtue, and the same (approaching zero) number after.
Why do some right wingers just make up things expecting that no one will call them on it?
He is the one people are hoping will beat Trump to win the Republican nomination. We are so screwed.

Daryl wrote:In the news here today, Ted Cruz has proclaimed that the incidence of rape went up significantly in Australia after our gun laws were tightened.
Never mind that the statistics don't say that at all, and that concealable handguns were banned before and after the changes.
Before the laws were tightened there were virtually no women "packing heat" with which they could defend their virtue, and the same (approaching zero) number after.
Why do some right wingers just make up things expecting that no one will call them on it?

You have to understand the GOP electorate. There's no penalty for their candidates lying about these things because they simply do not care if they are true. They just want to hear things that reinforce their beliefs. Hence.... Trump. And Fox news.

So anyone telling them things are bad when guns are regulated is the good guy. Anyone telling them different is the bad guy. And they don't want to hear about it if the data says otherwise.

I mean why do you think the Republicans pushed through a ban on any government agency conducting research into the causes of gun violence? They *don't want* to hear data that contradicts the beliefs of their base. That just pisses off their base. And it's a lot easier to just keep feeding them happy-making bullshit when your own agencies don't turn around and say "ahem... excuse me Mr Congressman/Senator... but this study we just performed..."

Daryl wrote:In the news here today, Ted Cruz has proclaimed that the incidence of rape went up significantly in Australia after our gun laws were tightened.
Never mind that the statistics don't say that at all, and that concealable handguns were banned before and after the changes.
Before the laws were tightened there were virtually no women "packing heat" with which they could defend their virtue, and the same (approaching zero) number after.
Why do some right wingers just make up things expecting that no one will call them on it?
He is the one people are hoping will beat Trump to win the Republican nomination. We are so screwed.

Everybody Does it including you and me. Or did you forget the comment about tourists.

His just gets more publication. Just like the democrat who said there are were 57 states. Or how to spell vegetables. <shrug>

Much less the fact that rape is the worst stat for tracking, period.

Have fun,
T2M

thinkstoomuch wrote:

Daryl wrote:In the news here today, Ted Cruz has proclaimed that the incidence of rape went up significantly in Australia after our gun laws were tightened.
Never mind that the statistics don't say that at all, and that concealable handguns were banned before and after the changes.
Before the laws were tightened there were virtually no women "packing heat" with which they could defend their virtue, and the same (approaching zero) number after.
Why do some right wingers just make up things expecting that no one will call them on it?
He is the one people are hoping will beat Trump to win the Republican nomination. We are so screwed.

Everybody Does it including you and me. Or did you forget the comment about tourists.

His just gets more publication. Just like the democrat who said there are were 57 states. Or how to spell vegetables. <shrug>

Much less the fact that rape is the worst stat for tracking, period.

Have fun,
T2M

You do understand the difference between a verbal slip (in the case of the "57 states", he said he had visited "all 50..." and then there was a long pause, and then he said the 7 without going back and saying 40 first when clarifying he hadn't been to a few yet) and just making up bald faced lies that serve your own biases right? He clearly knows there are 50 states. There's no purpose served to trying to trick his audience into thinking there are really 57. It was just a slip of the tongue after a long campaign.

As opposed to their being a clear purpose served in making up claims about skyrocketing rapes when guns are regulated.

gcomeau wrote:

Daryl wrote:In the news here today, Ted Cruz has proclaimed that the incidence of rape went up significantly in Australia after our gun laws were tightened.
Never mind that the statistics don't say that at all, and that concealable handguns were banned before and after the changes.
Before the laws were tightened there were virtually no women "packing heat" with which they could defend their virtue, and the same (approaching zero) number after.
Why do some right wingers just make up things expecting that no one will call them on it?

You have to understand the GOP electorate. There's no penalty for their candidates lying about these things because they simply do not care if they are true. They just want to hear things that reinforce their beliefs. Hence.... Trump. And Fox news.

So anyone telling them things are bad when guns are regulated is the good guy. Anyone telling them different is the bad guy. And they don't want to hear about it if the data says otherwise.

I mean why do you think the Republicans pushed through a ban on any government agency conducting research into the causes of gun violence? They *don't want* to hear data that contradicts the beliefs of their base. That just pisses off their base. And it's a lot easier to just keep feeding them happy-making bullshit when your own agencies don't turn around and say "ahem... excuse me Mr Congressman/Senator... but this study we just performed..."

Both sides do this type of thing, which is why there are so many cartoons/jokes featuring politicians saying all kinds of crazy things to pander to the voters.

biochem wrote:Both sides do this type of thing, which is why there are so many cartoons/jokes featuring politicians saying all kinds of crazy things to pander to the voters.

While there is a universal tendency towards selection/confirmation bias in people's thinking simply trying to boil it down to "both sides do it" is ignoring the reality that both sides do not do it in anywhere near the same degree and magnitude.

There is no Trump analog in the Democratic side of the debate for good reason. (No, Sanders is not one. Both of them being anti-establishment does not make them two sides of the same coin)

Nobody on that side of things could get away with running a campaign composed almost exclusively of reality-divorced bullshit and substance-less polemic rhetoric and not only survive but be the long standing clear front runner based on nothing beyond the fact that they were saying things that their base wanted to be true.

We had a clasic example here a fey years ago in our parliment.
A senator read out part of an email, in a parlimentry session, that prooved some corruption on behalf of the government.
The senator was later forced to admit he'd made it up.

He still got a leadership role when his party took government.



Anyway, turns out you don't need a good guy with a gun to stop a robbery. Just a couple of drunk Aussies.

https://youtu.be/Nl1yasSABOY (Work safe version with lots of bleeping)


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@Gcomeau

Please step back slowly from the cool aid that you have been drinking and slowly remove those rose covered glasses. Just because you hate guns...don't push your viewpoints upon the rest of us....the silent majority. How many gun regulations are on the books...20,000 Federal laws and regulations. That was just from yahoo search....what about the state laws and regulations.

I have a gun and concealed handgun permit. To own a weapon and concealed handgun permit costs me $140 a year and about $65 for a concealed carry class. My wife has a concealed handgun license; as a result, my fees are doubled and my pains are doubled (yes, I hate paying the fees). Personally, my family and I have been robbed and threatened with death by bad people looking for a fast and easy money. The gun did not cause me problems but the 2 black kids did. They were flying high on drugs. The gun was unregistered and stolen. Here is a quick newsflash: the police showed up 2 hours later after I called 911! The police do not stop crime they just wrote up a report and went back out on patrol. Two weeks later, another night manager was murdered by the same 2 individuals just 2 miles from where I worked! The real sad thing is that those 2 individuals were arrested within 13 hours because they had murdered someone. What if the police had done their job the first time and devoted the resources to arresting the individuals the 1st time. Maybe the other night manager would still be alive.

I will never surrender my weapons! If the government ever tries to seize my weapons, I will die defending my family and the Constitution. So, what are you going to enforce a gun seizure policy. Remember to bring extra body bags for this patriot and my family. My promise is I will apply all military training experience to anyone attempts to seize my 3 semi automatic pistols, 1 revolver, and 3 semi automatic rifles or 3 single shot rifles.

My wife feels the same way but for different reasons. She is from Mexico, where private citizens are banned from owning weapons. The government/cartel does what it wants to do and most times their is no difference between the 2. She has had friends killed and a couple of girlfriends just taken by the cartel! Her attitude towards the government that just takes the money legally through taxes and the cartel does it force. That is so why she supports the Knights Templar. It's a Mexican thing in poorer regions of Mexico designed to protect themselves from the cartel and their allies within the Mexican government. You thought the US is corrupt...the Mexican government makes the US look like choir boys!

You are probably calling me a right winger and I would laugh at that characterization of me. I believe an armed population is safe society. I am a sheepdog and I will protect my family at all costs. Let me ask you a question. Do you think that guns need to be banned?
If so, should not the government be disarmed after the population is disarmed. No....why not....the population is disarmed and the government has no reason to carry or own weapons. The point is that our world is not a utopia but bad people exist in every society and in every country. A gun is big neutralizer against personal oppression. Banning or restricting the average citizen from owning weapons only helps the criminals because the criminals won't follow the law. A government loses the right to rule when the government creates policies that take law abiding citizens and turns them into criminals due to tyranny or idiocy! For a government oppression just remember Tiananmen square and the thousands of chinese students that died and disappeared afterwards.

Now getting into politics just remember all of her lies and you want to let her be President. What an idiotic view, please anyone but Hilary or Jeb both are warts or cancers to America.

gcomeau wrote:

Daryl wrote:In the news here today, Ted Cruz has proclaimed that the incidence of rape went up significantly in Australia after our gun laws were tightened.
Never mind that the statistics don't say that at all, and that concealable handguns were banned before and after the changes.
Before the laws were tightened there were virtually no women "packing heat" with which they could defend their virtue, and the same (approaching zero) number after.
Why do some right wingers just make up things expecting that no one will call them on it?

You have to understand the GOP electorate. There's no penalty for their candidates lying about these things because they simply do not care if they are true. They just want to hear things that reinforce their beliefs. Hence.... Trump. And Fox news.

So anyone telling them things are bad when guns are regulated is the good guy. Anyone telling them different is the bad guy. And they don't want to hear about it if the data says otherwise.

I mean why do you think the Republicans pushed through a ban on any government agency conducting research into the causes of gun violence? They *don't want* to hear data that contradicts the beliefs of their base. That just pisses off their base. And it's a lot easier to just keep feeding them happy-making bullshit when your own agencies don't turn around and say "ahem... excuse me Mr Congressman/Senator... but this study we just performed..."

20 thousand regs, amongst 3140 odd county areas, and then state and federal level regs as well. So, about 6 regs per county. If theres one law for handguns, one for rifles, one for concealed carry/the banning of, one for the restrictions on who can own (preventing mentally unstable and domestic abusers say), one defining the requirements of how to own/buy, including taxation and such, that leaves about 1 law/reg per county unaccounted for.

smr wrote: SNIP.... 20,000 Federal laws and regulations. That was just from yahoo search....what about the state laws and regulations.

So the right to own a gun transcends the right to a safe society?

SNIP......
I will never surrender my weapons! If the government ever tries to seize my weapons, I will die defending my family and the Constitution. So, what are you going to do to enforce a gun seizure policy. Remember to bring extra body bags for this patriot and my family. My promise is I will apply all military training experience to anyone attempts to seize my 3 semi automatic pistols, 1 revolver, and 3 semi automatic rifles or 3 single shot rifles.

Except for the fact that the US has a 4 times higher violent crime rate, and a 10 times higher gun crime rate than other first world advanced nations? You may be a sheep dog, but your insistence on standing out from the flock seems to be causing more problems than its worth, especially now in the 21st century.

You are probably calling me a right winger and I would laugh at that characterization of me. I believe an armed population is safe society. I am a sheepdog and I will protect my family at all costs. Let me ask you a question. Do you think that guns need to be banned?
If so, should not the government be disarmed after the population is disarmed. No....why not....the population is disarmed and the government has no reason to carry or own weapons. The point is that our world is not a utopia but bad people exist in every society and in every country. A gun is big neutralizer against personal oppression. Banning or restricting the average citizen from owning weapons only helps the criminals because the criminals won't follow the law. A government loses the right to rule when the government creates policies that take law abiding citizens and turns them into criminals due to tyranny or idiocy! For a government oppression just remember Tiananmen square and the thousands of chinese students that died and disappeared afterwards.

Now getting into politics just remember all of her lies and you want to let her be President. What an idiotic view, please anyone but Hilary or Jeb both are warts or cancers to America.