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Honorverse ramblings and musings

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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by SWM   » Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:47 am

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cthia wrote:I fear I didn't make myself clear - attribute it to my lack of mastery of my own native language.

Do I disagree that a parent can raise an only child to be perfectly happy, well adjusted, mentally and emotionally? Of course not.

However, does anyone disagree that that same child, successfully raised with several other just as well raised kids of the same state of mind might have experienced even more joy? And would have even more to look forward to? Or do you not think you can raise more than one successfully?

I once said that one happy kid makes one happy kid. But two happy kids makes six happy kids - there's one happy kid plus one happy kid plus both together times two. It's the exponential equation of the shared bonds of love.

I think it is possible to raise more than one successfully. But I also think that the key in whether you raise them successfully is in the parents, not in whether you give the child siblings.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:22 am

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Textev gives witness to Alfred sharing a latent psychic connection with Allison when she was kidnapped which led to her rescue.

I wonder about crazy little things like what would happen if the two senior Harringtons along with Honor, Nimitz and Samantha and several other memory singers would get together and hold hands in a circle. A sort of cat-human séance. Just thinking, perhaps RFC can do something with that dangling thread (as with Raoul). Perhaps as a way to repair Nimitz by sheer will power - as a damaged brain learns to reroute alternate neural pathways through stimulation.

Having that latent talent, I'm surprised that neither senior Harrington has been adopted.

latent talent - anagrams of each other.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by saber964   » Sat Sep 26, 2015 7:20 pm

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cthia wrote:Textev gives witness to Alfred sharing a latent psychic connection with Allison when she was kidnapped which led to her rescue.

I wonder about crazy little things like what would happen if the two senior Harringtons along with Honor, Nimitz and Samantha and several other memory singers would get together and hold hands in a circle. A sort of cat-human séance. Just thinking, perhaps RFC can do something with that dangling thread (as with Raoul). Perhaps as a way to repair Nimitz by sheer will power - as a damaged brain learns to reroute alternate neural pathways through stimulation.

Having that latent talent, I'm surprised that neither senior Harrington has been adopted.

latent talent - anagrams of each other.



Something like that has already happened read The Stray.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by crewdude48   » Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:21 am

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cthia wrote:Having that latent talent, I'm surprised that neither senior Harrington has been adopted.


According to Mr Weber, their link they have with each other basicly uses up the mental and emotional "slot" that a treecat would use to bond.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:46 pm

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cthia wrote:I fear I didn't make myself clear - attribute it to my lack of mastery of my own native language.

Do I disagree that a parent can raise an only child to be perfectly happy, well adjusted, mentally and emotionally? Of course not.

However, does anyone disagree that that same child, successfully raised with several other just as well raised kids of the same state of mind might have experienced even more joy? And would have even more to look forward to? Or do you not think you can raise more than one successfully?

I once said that one happy kid makes one happy kid. But two happy kids makes six happy kids - there's one happy kid plus one happy kid plus both together times two. It's the exponential equation of the shared bonds of love.


SWM wrote:I think it is possible to raise more than one successfully. But I also think that the key in whether you raise them successfully is in the parents, not in whether you give the child siblings.


(Do forgive the length of this post, hopefully accomplished with the needs of the child in mind as is my intent.)

Exactly! Which is totally half of the ingredients to the love potion I was trying to make. There should be no fear that a second sibling is going to become a demon seed because a parent's love and quality time can raise both of them well, atop Plymouth rock. And I'm not just considering raising them successfully but with as full a life as a complete family promises. Shall we stand on that rock...

A family is not totally complete with a single child.

No, it isn't.

Not from the perspective of either parent or child. The parents cannot watch the children play but only the child. The child can only play with himself and his toys.

An "only" will never experience the sheer joy of pushing his sister in a wagon. He will never know the sheer joy in the selfless act of learning to push and not to pull - of seeing the wind blow through his sister's hair and her hair blowing in the wind - and the sheer unfathomable enjoyment of feeling her learning while trying to manage to steer... and hearing the thrill of excitement in her voice doesn't even compare to witnessing the sheer joy of it all on her face and her immense and contagious laughter.

The immensity of the wealth of pleasure earned in the sharing of her joy of her steering and not just of her riding is unforgettable and priceless! Made possible only at the one profound moment when his sister humbly asks...

"But let me steer this time Johnny. Please?"

And for a moment Johnny's world stops and he pauses... never having considered - but now looking down into the wagon which contains those eyes that shine with the pleading and the hope, he feels the steering column of the wagon in his hand loosen, remembering his own joys of steering and realizes he wants as much as he must share that experience with his sister. He gladly gives her the reins and moves to the rear of that little red wagon with a renewed mission to give his little sister the ride of her life. But first...

"Just a minute sis while I go and collect the rails ok?" Because he realizes that this time he's carrying valuable and dainty cargo - unlike pushing a brother. His parents witnessing the entire ordeal from the window after Johnny has caught their attention blowing past them inside with the rails in tow, bolting for the door to the outside where his sister awaits, like his hair is on fire. And with tears of shared joy at the loving spectacle, they quickly retire to their bedroom to burn off some of the intense joyous emotions of having kids.

Johnny has learned an invaluable concept and the moment those reins touch her hands her eyes light up with the sense of the coming adventure, of marvel, of wonder, but more profoundly with renewed respect and love for her brother from whom she has just felt the measure of love. The wagon's reins are as a magic wand which turns into a chariot of fire fueled by love.

It makes the now superman of a brother go faster and faster and faster spurred on by the inciting sounds of his sister's excitement growing louder and louder and louder. And when it is done, the reward of a sister's love and the awe seen in her eyes washing over the both of them and that momentous impact imparted on the brother that he can cause his sister joy, shared in her eyes as well - until they can't wait to do it again and again and again, over and over, day after day after day. (It almost sounds sexual this natural naïve intimacy between a brother and a sister doesn't it?) Yet is as natural as it is pure.

How many brothers out there have these exact same very fond memories, sisters as well? Or big brothers and younger ones? I nod my head to you in shared recognition. Family is the first place that a boy can learn that he can have a friendly relationship with a girl and grow profoundly from the invaluable merits of that encounter.

"Go outside and play little Johnny." Now little Johnny is outside of the castle, drawbridge closed - a lonely knight whose armor would shine with a sibling - another knight. One of my sisters once told me while she was in college that the thing she missed the most was the family dinners at night with all of the family. She said that for her and her sisters, there was King Arthur and his Queen who both loved them very much, but their brothers were always the knights at the roundtable. There is nothing like the days news of the village being passed around in friendly fashion at the round table and the accompanying conversations. Even if our table was long instead of round, it was far from "square." I knew exactly what my sister meant.

There's nothing like two brothers with gloves throwing a baseball. They love it so much that the parents has to force them to come inside after dark just as playing catch with a football. Learning what he can do because his brother can do it. The comparing of notes and the banter long after the lights are out in the realm of the brothers and across the marvelous yonder the same is happening in the realm of the sisters where the walls inbetween - the bridges to Sharabithia - are echoing these marvelous sounds between both camps.

The parents, if both are present, have each other as peers, as ever present companion. The lonely only has neither. A parent has a built-in equal as a friend - it is what comes with marriage. Not so for the lonely only. Yet a family is supposed to have a built-in friend for the child as well. YOU are not a child's friend. You are not a child's companion. You are his parent. The truth of PARENTHOOD and its realities! Trying to be a child's friend is a grandiose mistake. I see that mistake made in Hollywood all of the time. Lindsay Lohan's parents getting high with her at clubs - trying to be a cool friend rather than a parent has probably resulted in one of my favorite child stars becoming emotionally bankrupt.

I just cannot understand why a parent would give a child a cake without icing. Philosophically - even so that a child doesn't know that the cake is missing the icing - it is. It can still be enjoyed - but rather dryly - without the milk - the milk of human kindness in a parent's thoughts of companionship for the child, alone in the wild when the drawbridge of the King and Queen closes for the night.

Two parents = 1 + 1 and no one in the family wants the s to grow silent. Yet the equation for a lonely only is born silent. Let the child grow into children - into childs. The s represents the sound of children playing. You've added a child - now multiply.

If no one is in the forest when a tree falls does anyone hear?

If a companion child is not present in the forest does the family still hear the need?

They are not arbitrarily referred to as the lonely only.


There exists a bond between parent and parent - a link.
There should also exist a bond between sibling and sibling - yet a powerful link is missing.

More Rites Of Passage:
Watching your sister jump as high as she can for hours because she's a late bloomer and because someone told her it will help her get her period. Then having to apologize later because you laughed - not knowing how copernican it is for her. Onlies are cheated. They may not think they are. You may not think they are. But they never truly experience the big picture, the full picture, the inherent meaning of family - and getting a bird's-eye view when it is their turn to ride on the stork rather than in it.

I remember the joy of riding on the shoulders of my oldest brother. He was so tall and I thought I could touch the clouds. As I grew, I instinctively passed that feeling on to younger or smaller siblings and enjoyed their same reaction of joy. The melodious song of two or more girls giggling. The smell in the house of girly shampoo, lotions, perfume. A sister commandeering your t-shirts as pajamas because they're more comfortable than their silk robes. Sisters handing down and borrowing clothing. Playing dress-up. Having a live doll to play with. Girlish boy-giggle sounds the same on all girls' lips but in your own household it is uncensored and raw.

Never knowing the joy of breaking the single remaining chocolate chip cookie and sharing with a sibling. Or sharing the last remaining bread making two sandwiches out of the last two slices instead of one. The memory of playing fort with my brothers with many chairs in the playroom and sheets and blankets spread across them making caves. Waking up having fallen asleep after hours of playing. Seeing the eyes of your sister as she is allowed entrance into the fort for the first time. A homemade playhouse.

A sibling is a companion tagging along to help investigate life in the wild. It is the lessened fear and anxiety of attending a new school because a sibling has already broken that ground and hallowed those halls and paved the way for you. Don't you remember all of this from your own childhood? Then how can you shield your own child from it? I just don't get it.

Who among you shall be my keeper after my parents are gone for I have no brother.

I heard my best friend's mother once say, "He's an only child but at least he was breastfed."

I'll leave you to analyze that one on your own.


****** *


There are so many occasions where Honor would have benefited from a sister or brother. She would have known how to put on makeup long ago. The relationship with any siblings would not have impeded her bond with Nimitz or vice versa. I challenge you to not be able to recognize the many moments when Honor would have loved having a sibling.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by SWM   » Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:20 pm

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cthia wrote:
SWM wrote:I think it is possible to raise more than one successfully. But I also think that the key in whether you raise them successfully is in the parents, not in whether you give the child siblings.


(Do forgive the length of this post, hopefully accomplished with the needs of the child in mind as is my intent.)

Exactly! Which is totally half of the ingredients to the love potion I was trying to make. There should be no fear that a second sibling is going to become a demon seed because a parent's love and quality time can raise both of them well, atop Plymouth rock. And I'm not just considering raising them successfully but with as full a life as a complete family promises. Shall we stand on that rock...


Where did I ever say that there was a fear that a second sibling would become a demon seed?!! I just said I didn't want a second child.

I'm sorry, Cthia. I find this entire post to be a personal insult. You are saying that if I were a good father I would give my daughter a sibling, ergo I am not a good father. I tried to head this off earlier before it got to this point; I said we should agree to disagree. I will not respond to any further discussion on the topic.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:25 pm

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cthia wrote:
SWM wrote:I think it is possible to raise more than one successfully. But I also think that the key in whether you raise them successfully is in the parents, not in whether you give the child siblings.


(Do forgive the length of this post, hopefully accomplished with the needs of the child in mind as is my intent.)

Exactly! Which is totally half of the ingredients to the love potion I was trying to make. There should be no fear that a second sibling is going to become a demon seed because a parent's love and quality time can raise both of them well, atop Plymouth rock. And I'm not just considering raising them successfully but with as full a life as a complete family promises. Shall we stand on that rock...


SWM wrote:Where did I ever say that there was a fear that a second sibling would become a demon seed?!! I just said I didn't want a second child.

I'm sorry, Cthia. I find this entire post to be a personal insult. You are saying that if I were a good father I would give my daughter a sibling, ergo I am not a good father. I tried to head this off earlier before it got to this point; I said we should agree to disagree. I will not respond to any further discussion on the topic.

I said nor did I imply NO such thing. And you full well know it. The demon seed reference was thrown out in general, because someone quoted the story of Jacob and Esau and I think it sad to deny a sibling a brother or sister for fear of something like that happening. I agreed that parents can successfully raise a single child. I have friends who are examples of that as I have stated. I simply think that a child would have a fuller life it he wasn't alone by manner of another sibling. How on Earth do you manage to twist that into something sordid.

And yes, I read - what I thought - was your final post on the subject which was "I disagree."

I respected that and was willing to let it end there. I even smiled at the exchange as it is normal for you and I to disagree - yet there has always been respect. If you bothered to notice, my following post was a totally different subject.

Which is why, when I had read that you had edited your previous post, out of respect, I felt I owed you a response.

What I posted are my personal thoughts on child rearing such as they are - it is not of your character to take it as an insult and not allow me that.

And from interacting with you, I certainly never doubted that you are raising a fine young daughter.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by cthia   » Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:39 pm

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On Basilisk Station
"Ditching stations!" the pilot screamed, but he went on fighting his dying controls. Every second he kept his plunging craft aloft put a tiny bit more distance between him and the Medusans trying to kill him.

"Repeat, Sierra-One-One is going down, NPA Control," Malcolm said in that same flat, unnaturally calm voice. "Require assistance. Repeat, require assistance!"

She jerked off the com headset and lunged across the shrieking, writhing Truman for the dorsal turret. She dragged herself up into it, fighting the dying skimmer's shuddering heaves as she slammed her shoulders into the shock frame harness Truman should have donned. The straps dropped and locked, her hands found the firing grips, and she poured a tornado of fire into the howling mob of Medusans charging towards the only smooth place the pilot could hope to set them down.

They hit with a bone-breaking shock, and Malcolm clung to her weapons, grunting in anguish as the harness straps bit into her. She heard someone else scream, but the pilot had known what he was doing. The skimmer porpoised across the ground in a bow wave of shredded moss, shedding bits and pieces through a billowing cloud of dust, yet they were down and intact.

And thousands of screaming Medusan nomads were charging straight after them.

Malcolm heard sobs and moans and bubbling screams from her wounded and dying crew, but she also heard firing ports slamming open and the high, shrill whine of the first pulse rifle. She'd struck her head on something during that wild, careening slide, despite the shock frame, and flowing blood blinded her left eye, but her right was clear. The power light still blazed on the turret's twin weapons, and the training gear hummed smoothly when she hit the pedal.

She traversed her fire, sweeping it back and forth across that incredible tidal wave of bodies. She killed them in scores, in hundreds, and still they came. The turret starred as more bullets slammed into the skimmer. Some of them came from behind her, and flying plastic chips cut her face, spalled from the thick canopy's inner surface, but Malcolm clung to the grips, pouring her fire into the shrieking mob.

She was still firing when clubs and rifle butts smashed the turret and dozens of Medusan hands dragged her out of it.

The knives were waiting.

There are cutters and pinnaces, but I couldn't find any info on the size of a skimmer. Anybody?

Please indulge me on this one. It is rather difficult for me to prevent tech from one series like Star Trek from bleeding into another, like the Honorverse. First, can atmospheric military ships such as cutters, pinaces and the above mentioned skimmer communicate directly with Fearless? If so, in this case why can't Fearless pinpoint the location of the skimmer and fire energy weapons from orbit killing as many of the Medusans? Also, why can't a ship in orbit read the time on a wristwatch from someone lying on the ground? Thus able to follow everything on the ground from within a certain firing arc.

Can the output of energy weapons be dialed down?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by Jonathan_S   » Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:50 am

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cthia wrote:There are cutters and pinnaces, but I couldn't find any info on the size of a skimmer. Anybody?

Please indulge me on this one. It is rather difficult for me to prevent tech from one series like Star Trek from bleeding into another, like the Honorverse. First, can atmospheric military ships such as cutters, pinaces and the above mentioned skimmer communicate directly with Fearless? If so, in this case why can't Fearless pinpoint the location of the skimmer and fire energy weapons from orbit killing as many of the Medusans? Also, why can't a ship in orbit read the time on a wristwatch from someone lying on the ground? Thus able to follow everything on the ground from within a certain firing arc.

Can the output of energy weapons be dialed down?

I was going to say that OBS is the only time we'd heard about skimmers; but fortunatly I did a text search to double-check because I was wrong.

House of Steel had this tidbit I'd forgotten.
House of Steel wrote:relatively lightly armored but highly mobile skimmers [...]
In comparison, the M27 Skimmer (often referred to as a “battle taxi”) is a pure countergrav vehicle that bears a closer resemblance to an armored aircar than a tank. Optimized as a fast reconnaissance vehicle, the M27 is capable of speeds up to 900 kph at low altitude. Armament consists of a twin light tribarrel pulser turret to provide support fire to the embarked squad when necessary.

If a skimmer is basically a lightly armored aircar then it can't reach orbit - unlike a transatmospheric stingship. As such it's radio probably isn't optimized to talk to orbital objects; but if Fearless happened to be passing overhead in a low orbit she could likely communicate with a skimmer - for a few minutes until orbital mechanics causes her to fly out of range The higher the orbit the more time you have to communicate but the more range the skimmer's radio would need to have. (For reference the Space Shuttle at a medium low orbit circles the planet every 90 minutes)

But there's little reason that a ground based skimmer would have pre-planned to talk to Fearless during a mission that would last at least a complete orbit (so much of the time with Fearless below the horizon). Plus the recon sweep wasn't supposed to be very risky - if they'd know it was potentially risky enough to take special precautions they'd have just used a much more heavily armored Pinnace instead; the NPA had 3 fleet pinnaces of their own. There's no way the Medusans could have shot down a pinnace.


Then if Fearless had happened to observe and be overhead energy weapons are a bad choice for firesupport. The atmosphere is not perfectly transparent to lasers or grasers - you get a lot of thermal blooming and other issues. Basically the reason Honorverse ships use kinetic kill imp actors for orbital fire support is because they are more precise and have less collateral damage than firing their energy weapons through atmosphere. But even those aren't great for final protective fire for a position getting overrun - for that you want something that's closer by and even less destructive.
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Re: Honorverse ramblings and musings
Post by kzt   » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:57 am

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Someone at NASA once posted something saying that the atmosphere of earth had about the same resistance to either X-rays or gamma rays as several meters of aluminum. Your spot size is going to be huge, with the weapon essentially becoming an area weapon as the ionizing radiation scattered off the beam will kill things through radiation poisoning that are quite a ways from the target point.

Optical lasers are a far better choice if you want to precisesly hit things inside the atmosphere, but it doesn't appear the Manticore has these in service.
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