Honorverse ramblings and musings

cthia wrote:It has been proven in scientific study that animals communicate amongst themselves via telepathy. Sometimes at great distances.
Normal 'hearing' amongst different species operate at a certain frequency...

Wait, what? Whoa there, Tex, I think you didn't mean what those words mean. I do concur, many animals can communicate over long distances by making and sensing sounds we puny humans cannot hear. But I don't think that qualifies as telepathy, at least by any definition I have heard of.

From Merriman-Webster online dictionary:

A way of communicating thoughts directly from one person's mind to another person's mind without using words or signals

Telepathy is often speculated to operate at a certain frequency. I wonder if there is a natural frequency of cats. If so, could it be exploited by the MAlign? Could treecat empathic 'frequencies' be interrupted?

Now this speculation is interesting. Is there a 'frequency' for telepathy, and can humans either 'learn' it (Honor and, I suspect, her son) or can something mechanical be built that will allow two-legs to 'read' People's minds and reply back?

Don't know, but it is an interesting speculation.

Hutch wrote:

cthia wrote:
It has been proven in scientific study that animals communicate amongst themselves via telepathy. Sometimes at great distances.
Normal 'hearing' amongst different species operate at a certain frequency...

Wait, what? Whoa there, Tex, I think you didn't mean what those words mean. I do concur, many animals can communicate over long distances by making and sensing sounds we puny humans cannot hear. But I don't think that qualifies as telepathy, at least by any definition I have heard of.

From Merriman-Webster online dictionary:

A way of communicating thoughts directly from one person's mind to another person's mind without using words or signals

Telepathy is often speculated to operate at a certain frequency. I wonder if there is a natural frequency of cats. If so, could it be exploited by the MAlign? Could treecat empathic 'frequencies' be interrupted?

Now this speculation is interesting. Is there a 'frequency' for telepathy, and can humans either 'learn' it (Honor and, I suspect, her son) or can something mechanical be built that will allow two-legs to 'read' People's minds and reply back?

Don't know, but it is an interesting speculation.

It was quite an interesting shock to me as well. I remember a site where the scientific research was considered incontrovertible, if I can find it. At any rate, it now appears to be an accepted fact. What's more important to me is the many claims that humans once enjoyed this same ability. (One does wonder about the utility of the redundant side of our brains.)

There are so many sources proposing exactly that. A quick search will yield countless hits and makes for some very interesting reading. I remember a tv show not too long ago about a tactic employed by killer whales to disable great white sharks. Killer whales attack the sharks from below knocking them on their backs. Somehow, the whales have discovered that a shark becomes comatose while on its back. A regular shark in captivity was used to show this trait. When turned on its back, sure enough the shark became immobile - comatose. It was later discovered that in high density great white shark regions a single appearance of a killer whale would make sharks disappear for miles and miles. It is thought some form other than sense, smell and taste is used amongst the sharks to alert others at vast distances of danger. It is thought to be telepathy.


We don't know what fruit the MAlign's research bore of their study on the Cats. We know that the one Cat died in captivity. How did the Cat die? Why did the Cat die? Perhaps by some intense scientific research? Textev says the MAlign's ultimate goal was to expose the secrets of treecat empathy. How far along did the MAlign get? And what other secrets, perhaps accidentally, were discovered? Perhaps they discovered an operating frequency. And perhaps they have figured out a way to disturb, interrupt or block this frequency and perhaps while causing the Cats great distress.


http://www.animaltelepathy.com/about.html
http://www.telepathyrevealed.com/telepathic-frequency/
http://news.discovery.com/animals/pets/ ... 110609.htm

cthia wrote:http://www.animaltelepathy.com/about.html
http://www.telepathyrevealed.com/telepathic-frequency/
http://news.discovery.com/animals/pets/ ... 110609.htm

While those three are fun websites, they are NOT backed by reliable scientific studies. A quick look shows that not one of those sites points to published research. They are among the thousands of pseudoscientific paranormal promotions. From a scientific perspective, those sites are garbage.

There are certainly genuine scientific studies of animal communication. There have been some suggestions in the literature about telepathy, but as far as I know nothing more than unsupported speculation. It is definitely not "generally accepted".

But I don't follow all of the research, and there could be something more solid than I am aware of. If you can find some actual research, do let us know.

Hutch wrote:Now this speculation is interesting. Is there a 'frequency' for telepathy, and can humans either 'learn' it (Honor and, I suspect, her son) or can something mechanical be built that will allow two-legs to 'read' People's minds and reply back?

Don't know, but it is an interesting speculation.

Now this is something we can talk about.

Unfortunately, there isn't much we can say. The text states that Honorverse researchers have not yet found any way of detecting telepathic or empathic communications. And they have tried. They don't even have any idea what kind of energies it might involve.

Since physics states that all energy transmissions can be considered both waves and particles, we can state with certainty that telepathy has a frequency range. But until the Honorverse can actually detect those transmissions, it would be impossible to try to jam it.

cthia wrote:We don't know what fruit the MAlign's research bore of their study on the Cats. We know that the one Cat died in captivity. How did the Cat die? Why did the Cat die? Perhaps by some intense scientific research? Textev says the MAlign's ultimate goal was to expose the secrets of treecat empathy. How far along did the MAlign get? And what other secrets, perhaps accidentally, were discovered? Perhaps they discovered an operating frequency. And perhaps they have figured out a way to disturb, interrupt or block this frequency and perhaps while causing the Cats great distress.

Yes, we do know what fruit the MAlign's research bore in their study of treecats. Absolutely nothing. The text tells us that they didn't learn anything useful. The treecat committed suicide. And if I recall correctly, in such a way that convinced them that it would not be useful to steal another treecat.

SWM wrote:

cthia wrote:We don't know what fruit the MAlign's research bore of their study on the Cats. We know that the one Cat died in captivity. How did the Cat die? Why did the Cat die? Perhaps by some intense scientific research? Textev says the MAlign's ultimate goal was to expose the secrets of treecat empathy. How far along did the MAlign get? And what other secrets, perhaps accidentally, were discovered? Perhaps they discovered an operating frequency. And perhaps they have figured out a way to disturb, interrupt or block this frequency and perhaps while causing the Cats great distress.

Yes, we do know what fruit the MAlign's research bore in their study of treecats. Absolutely nothing. The text tells us that they didn't learn anything useful. The treecat committed suicide. And if I recall correctly, in such a way that convinced them that it would not be useful to steal another treecat.

I'm very interested in that text. I know it exists. I just haven't seen it for myself. I'd like to know if it specifically states that they didn't learn anything useful or that they didn't learn anything useful regarding adapting and artificially mimicking it via genetic research.

I'm just trying to prepare myself for any potential curves pitched by the MAlign, you see.

SWM wrote:

Hutch wrote:Now this speculation is interesting. Is there a 'frequency' for telepathy, and can humans either 'learn' it (Honor and, I suspect, her son) or can something mechanical be built that will allow two-legs to 'read' People's minds and reply back?

Don't know, but it is an interesting speculation.

Now this is something we can talk about.

Unfortunately, there isn't much we can say. The text states that Honorverse researchers have not yet found any way of detecting telepathic or empathic communications. And they have tried. They don't even have any idea what kind of energies it might involve.

Since physics states that all energy transmissions can be considered both waves and particles, we can state with certainty that telepathy has a frequency range. But until the Honorverse can actually detect those transmissions, it would be impossible to try to jam it.

Honorverse researchers, no. But my proposal is regarding MAlignverse. Alluding to the notion that the MAligney-hole is somewhere outside of the Honorverse. And the fact that Honorverse researchers didn't conceive of MAlign tech either or MAlign biological warfare.

SWM wrote:

cthia wrote:http://www.animaltelepathy.com/about.html
http://www.telepathyrevealed.com/telepathic-frequency/
http://news.discovery.com/animals/pets/ ... 110609.htm

While those three are fun websites, they are NOT backed by reliable scientific studies. A quick look shows that not one of those sites points to published research. They are among the thousands of pseudoscientific paranormal promotions. From a scientific perspective, those sites are garbage.

There are certainly genuine scientific studies of animal communication. There have been some suggestions in the literature about telepathy, but as far as I know nothing more than unsupported speculation. It is definitely not "generally accepted".

But I don't follow all of the research, and there could be something more solid than I am aware of. If you can find some actual research, do let us know.

You're preaching to the choir. I was the biggest skeptic. But it does seem to be widely accepted, just not widely proven. And, since I'm part Native American, I have no doubt in the ability of 'animal whisperers.' But that's another story.

There was a site though, featuring intense research that seemed to be incontrovertible. That was their claim at least. I'll try and find it.

At any rate, I wouldn't be surprised if the MAlign has a few surprises in store.

I always wanted more POV of McQueen. In her early years, as part of Operation Stalking Horse her Task Force 30 hit the understrength Minette system.

Task Force Minette-01 was a task force of the Royal Manticoran Navy in charge of picketing and defending the Minette System.
It was commanded by Vice Admiral of the Red Ludwig Stanton.

⦁ HMS Majestic, Captain George Truscot commanding, task force flagship
⦁ HMS Orion
⦁ a cruiser element, including:
⦁ HMS Seeress
⦁ HMS Oracle
⦁ a destroyer element

Seeing the overwhelming forces arrayed against him, Admiral Stanton decided to withdraw rather than sacrifice his command. He ordered the evacuation of all technical personnel, and the scuttling of Tracking Central as well as all inner-system platforms, so that the FTL sensor net technology would not fall into Havenite hands. He then planned to pass the PN on the way out, firing as many missiles as he could at their superdreadnoughts in order to ease the ability of a counterattack to take the system. Before moving out he contacted the Premier of Everest to inform him of his intentions.
During the withdrawal, Stanton's forces managed to destroy one superdreadnought, heavily damage another, and destroyed a battlecruiser, in return for heavy damage to two dreadnoughts (HMS Majestic and Orion) as well as losing four heavy cruisers. (HH5)

I remember this sticking in my craw. I hated it each time the RMN had to destroy its own resources. (I don't recall the RHN ever doing that. Did I miss any such event?) At any rate, what I cannot figure out is why this system was left so threadbare, so understrength. Well, I know the strategic reasons why. Hamish needed help by way of reinforcements for his Trevor's Star campaign. And McQueen wasn't even his opposition then. She was there, raising hell in Minette. What I ultimately don't understand is what was the importance of Minette? Obviously it was important because, in retreating and giving up the system, Admiral Stanton was looking ahead to strategically make reaquiring Minette easier with his en passant tactic. (This is a perfect example of the passed pawn idea on the chess board projected onto a real battle field, which was not lost on me.)

What really disturbs me is why FTL technology was employed throughout this system? I suppose as much advance warning as one can get would make for a more complete and safer evacuation, but all of the new technology is at risk - all of the FTL platforms seeded throughout the system. Why seed FTL platforms in an inadequately defended system? Beyond the fact that they're expensive systems, the RMN could not afford for the technology to fall into enemy hands.

Whatever happened to Vice Admiral Stanton?

cthia wrote:I always wanted more POV of McQueen. In her early years, as part of Operation Stalking Horse her Task Force 30 hit the understrength Minette system.

Task Force Minette-01 was a task force of the Royal Manticoran Navy in charge of picketing and defending the Minette System.
It was commanded by Vice Admiral of the Red Ludwig Stanton.

⦁ HMS Majestic, Captain George Truscot commanding, task force flagship
⦁ HMS Orion
⦁ a cruiser element, including:
⦁ HMS Seeress
⦁ HMS Oracle
⦁ a destroyer element

Seeing the overwhelming forces arrayed against him, Admiral Stanton decided to withdraw rather than sacrifice his command. He ordered the evacuation of all technical personnel, and the scuttling of Tracking Central as well as all inner-system platforms, so that the FTL sensor net technology would not fall into Havenite hands. He then planned to pass the PN on the way out, firing as many missiles as he could at their superdreadnoughts in order to ease the ability of a counterattack to take the system. Before moving out he contacted the Premier of Everest to inform him of his intentions.
During the withdrawal, Stanton's forces managed to destroy one superdreadnought, heavily damage another, and destroyed a battlecruiser, in return for heavy damage to two dreadnoughts (HMS Majestic and Orion) as well as losing four heavy cruisers. (HH5)

I remember this sticking in my craw. I hated it each time the RMN had to destroy its own resources. (I don't recall the RHN ever doing that. Did I miss any such event?) At any rate, what I cannot figure out is why this system was left so threadbare, so understrength. Well, I know the strategic reasons why. Hamish needed help by way of reinforcements for his Trevor's Star campaign. And McQueen wasn't even his opposition then. She was there, raising hell in Minette. What I ultimately don't understand is what was the importance of Minette? Obviously it was important because, in retreating and giving up the system, Admiral Stanton was looking ahead to strategically make reaquiring Minette easier with his en passant tactic. (This is a perfect example of the passed pawn idea on the chess board projected onto a real battle field, which was not lost on me.)

What really disturbs me is why FTL technology was employed throughout this system? I suppose as much advance warning as one can get would make for a more complete and safer evacuation, but all of the new technology is at risk - all of the FTL platforms seeded throughout the system. Why seed FTL platforms in an inadequately defended system? Beyond the fact that they're expensive systems, the RMN could not afford for the technology to fall into enemy hands.

Whatever happened to Vice Admiral Stanton?

My impression is that Minette did not have any significant strategic value. It was important only because it was a member of the Manticoran Alliance. Manticore had to protect the members of the Alliance or it would lose those members' support. Haven attacked Minette to put pressure on the Manticoran Alliance. Pressure might cause members to leave the Alliance. Attacks on the members would certainly cause the members to demand more protection from the RMN, which would weaken their offensive forces. And Manticore would be obligated to free any Manticoran Alliance member system which was captured, as soon as possible. If they didn't, the other members would wonder about Manticore's commitment to protecting them.

The FTL platforms almost certainly have self-destruct systems. That's what they mean by scuttling. The FTL Comm secret was not in danger in Minette, because they could destroy it at any time, and did so. As a full member of the Manticoran Alliance, Minette certainly deserved the FTL Comm platforms.