Point of View: Wishes and Likes

cthia wrote:

crewdude48 wrote:Also, what's the deal with the caveman talk? When ever you create dialogue for a 'cat, it is always in sentence fragments. When MWW creates dialogue, either mind voice or TSL, they are as eloquent as any other character in the novels.

You are absolutely right crewdude. And I do it intentionally. Perhaps I shouldn't. My apology to the treecat character.

Why do I do it?

1. No where near as good as RFC.

2. I mentioned a while back about my niece signing with her deaf best friend who is brilliant, and reads lips like you wouldn't believe. The two of them sign so fast it's like a blur. But her own family members, parents and siblings, are unaccomplished. When humans first learn sign, they have a tendency to talk in a sort of shorthand minus certain words. My niece and I attribute it to the type communication prevalent in early chat rooms by non-accomplished typists and also in text messages. But, novices in sign language do not have a tendency to sign eloquent English. Because of their limitation of the mastery of sign language and the slowness of spelling objects. I try to show that. Perhaps erroneously, but I don't think treecats will just become experts at such a new alien form of communication, trying to communicate an alien language, English, to bespeak eloquence. Again, not as a factor of intelligence, but of novelty.

I'll try to do better in the future.

I imagine the translations we get of treecat signing fill in some grammatical detail that the literal signing leaves assumed. And various treecats in various contexts will speak differently, just like humans.

But I doubt treecats who are generally competent in sign language, being understood by humans who are competent in it, are going to be uttering things that use poor grammar or diction when it would be just as easy and fast to use appropriate grammar and diction. (Well - unless it's some personal peculiarity.)

Among humans, intentionally ignoring or violating standard grammar is a way of thumbing your nose at the dominant social class and culture. I can barely wrap my head around a treecat signing with a need to further and maintain street cred, but I really, REALLY doubt it's going to be common.

cthia wrote:

crewdude48 wrote:Also, what's the deal with the caveman talk? When ever you create dialogue for a 'cat, it is always in sentence fragments. When MWW creates dialogue, either mind voice or TSL, they are as eloquent as any other character in the novels.

You are absolutely right crewdude. And I do it intentionally. Perhaps I shouldn't. My apology to the treecat character.

Why do I do it?

1. No where near as good as RFC.

2. I mentioned a while back about my niece signing with her deaf best friend who is brilliant, and reads lips like you wouldn't believe. The two of them sign so fast it's like a blur. But her own family members, parents and siblings, are unaccomplished. When humans first learn sign, they have a tendency to talk in a sort of shorthand minus certain words. My niece and I attribute it to the type communication prevalent in early chat rooms by non-accomplished typists and also in text messages. But, novices in sign language do not have a tendency to sign eloquent English. Because of their limitation of the mastery of sign language and the slowness of spelling objects. I try to show that. Perhaps erroneously, but I don't think treecats will just become experts at such a new alien form of communication, trying to communicate an alien language, English, to bespeak eloquence. Again, not as a factor of intelligence, but of novelty.

I'll try to do better in the future.

JeffEngel wrote:I imagine the translations we get of treecat signing fill in some grammatical detail that the literal signing leaves assumed. And various treecats in various contexts will speak differently, just like humans.

Only novices leave meaning to be assumed, or filled in. Sign language has a very healthy grammatical construct. BUT. This construct depends heavily on mannerisms, gestures, facial movements, etc. Remember, sign language had to be adapted to use for the cats, who may or may not be capable of such complicated facial movements and body mannerisms/gestures indicative of fluent sign. And humans, who speak sign language (and more so who are adept at it) is going to represent a very small minority. I don't suppose humans are going to rush out in droves in an attempt to learn sign just to communicate with cats, when we fail to learn a second language to communicate with a bigger percentage of people. And most family members fail to learn sign well or at all to communicate with loved ones.

But I doubt treecats who are generally competent in sign language, being understood by humans who are competent in it, are going to be uttering things that use poor grammar or diction when it would be just as easy and fast to use appropriate grammar and diction. (Well - unless it's some personal peculiarity.)

Among humans, intentionally ignoring or violating standard grammar is a way of thumbing your nose at the dominant social class and culture. I can barely wrap my head around a treecat signing with a need to further and maintain street cred, but I really, REALLY doubt it's going to be common.

Competence is going to represent a huge chasm from human to human, for various reasons, as does the competence of one's own native language represent chasms from person to person. (I'm American and still learning English.)

I wasn't trying to convey grammatical ignorance, ghetto or *street slang, rather the realities of a new species attempting to learn a completely different form of communication - which is completely different than their form of communication, which is created for a segment of people (deaf and speak impaired humans) that itself is speech handicapped. I think it is rather easy to take much too much for granted.

*Except in incidences where meant to be a function of humor.

Vince wrote:

cthia wrote:POV of the first positive conversation about humans from the cats.

<Me tell you. Two-leg kill puma from 100 meters with thunder stick>

<haha You been eating shrooms again>

<Nope. I was not high two-legs have celery and thunder stick we make friends>

<you get us celery?>

<yes>

<why didn't you just say so. In that case. Get yo bond on>

<Plus that two-leg purty>

< ...>

****** *

Which treecat was the first to perch on a shoulder?

(A POV was given in "A Beautiful Friendship")

The treecat's name for a hexapuma is Death Fang. Celery wasn't introduced until Sphinx was colonized much later after the initial survey.

IIRC it was either Swift Striker (bonded with Scott Dallan), or Climbs Quickly (bonded with Stephanie Harrington) who was the first to perch on their person's shoulder.

Probably Scott Dallen, as Stephanie was 1)badly injured for a while, and 2) a teenager, so unlikely to be large enough to be able to support a cat sitting on her shoulder. Also Climbs Quickly was badly injured, and would have spent quite a bit of time recovering.

Probably Scott Dallen, as Stephanie was 1)badly injured for a while, and 2) a teenager, so unlikely to be large enough to be able to support a cat sitting on her shoulder. Also Climbs Quickly was badly injured, and would have spent quite a bit of time recovering.

On the other hand, Scott MacDallan is not a genie, while Stephanie has the Meyerdahl heavy-grav gene mod.

There is no mention of Swift Striker sitting on MacDallan's shoulder in The Stray. The first citation of a treecat sitting on someone's shoulder is in the novel A Beautiful Friendship, as seen by Chief Ranger Gary Shelton:

A man, a woman, a child, and a . . . treecat came through the door.
The man was tall and probably in his late thirties, with dark hair just starting to silver and dark eyes. His wife was about the same age, with a fairer complexion and eyes that hovered somewhere between brown and hazel. The child looked to be about thirteen or fourteen T-years old, with her father's dark brown eyes and a rioutously curly version of her mother's more carefully controlled hair.
And looking around alertly from her shoulder was a treecat, a representative of the native Sphinxian species whose discovery just over a T-year ago had done so much to complicate Shelton's life.

As I recall, Lionheart didn't ride there very often, because it was a bit awkward given her size. But lacking any earlier reference, and given the fact that MacDallan was not a genie, it is quite possible that Stephanie is the first to carry a treecat on her shoulder. At the time of this citation, there appear to be only two other humans bonded to treecats--MacDallan and Franchitti.

SWM wrote:

Probably Scott Dallen, as Stephanie was 1)badly injured for a while, and 2) a teenager, so unlikely to be large enough to be able to support a cat sitting on her shoulder. Also Climbs Quickly was badly injured, and would have spent quite a bit of time recovering.

On the other hand, Scott MacDallan is not a genie, while Stephanie has the Meyerdahl heavy-grav gene mod.

There is no mention of Swift Striker sitting on MacDallan's shoulder in The Stray. The first citation of a treecat sitting on someone's shoulder is in the novel A Beautiful Friendship, as seen by Chief Ranger Gary Shelton:

A man, a woman, a child, and a . . . treecat came through the door.
The man was tall and probably in his late thirties, with dark hair just starting to silver and dark eyes. His wife was about the same age, with a fairer complexion and eyes that hovered somewhere between brown and hazel. The child looked to be about thirteen or fourteen T-years old, with her father's dark brown eyes and a rioutously curly version of her mother's more carefully controlled hair.
And looking around alertly from her shoulder was a treecat, a representative of the native Sphinxian species whose discovery just over a T-year ago had done so much to complicate Shelton's life.

As I recall, Lionheart didn't ride there very often, because it was a bit awkward given her size. But lacking any earlier reference, and given the fact that MacDallan was not a genie, it is quite possible that Stephanie is the first to carry a treecat on her shoulder. At the time of this citation, there appear to be only two other humans bonded to treecats--MacDallan and Franchitti.

I believe that until Fire Season there were only Stephanie, MacDallan and the guy that was killed in the aircar incident bonded, and Franchetti was definitely not.

George J. Smith wrote:I believe that until Fire Season there were only Stephanie, MacDallan and the guy that was killed in the aircar incident bonded, and Franchetti was definitely not.

Sorry, I meant Erhardt. Sorry, I got confused because Franchitti was mentioned in the same paragraph with Erhardt and MacDallan. In A Beautiful Friendship:

Shelton had been inclined to doubt the stories of sentience himself, but only until Scott MacDallan and then Arvin Erhardt had encountered them as well. Of course, Dr. MacDallan was another “newcomer” as far as someone like Franchitti was concerned, but Erhardt’s family had arrived aboard the colony ship Jason. Even Franchitti had to take him seriously when he insisted treecats not only existed but were extraordinarily smart.

Oh man, I just figured out the one POV I'd want: the first human (stipulating, Not HH herself!)) with the ability to "see" what the Memory Singers such as Samantha can pass along telepathically. Imagine being able to have memories of several centuries of human/'cat interaction and even more insight on how the 'cats interact between each other.

Talk about an ambassador between species. WOW.

SharkHunter wrote:Oh man, I just figured out the one POV I'd want: the first human (stipulating, Not HH herself!)) with the ability to "see" what the Memory Singers such as Samantha can pass along telepathically. Imagine being able to have memories of several centuries of human/'cat interaction and even more insight on how the 'cats interact between each other.

Talk about an ambassador between species. WOW.

That would be Scott McDallen; see the short story "The Stray" in [url]Worlds of Honor[/url]

Weird Harold wrote:

SharkHunter wrote:Oh man, I just figured out the one POV I'd want: the first human (stipulating, Not HH herself!)) with the ability to "see" what the Memory Singers such as Samantha can pass along telepathically. Imagine being able to have memories of several centuries of human/'cat interaction and even more insight on how the 'cats interact between each other.

Talk about an ambassador between species. WOW.

That would be Scott McDallen; see the short story "The Stray" in [url]Worlds of Honor[/url]

Scott gets touched briefly, that is true. I'm talking about a full "mind on mind" link, with all the history SINCE, although that might blow the poor human's cranium to bits.

Weird Harold wrote:

SharkHunter wrote:Oh man, I just figured out the one POV I'd want: the first human (stipulating, Not HH herself!)) with the ability to "see" what the Memory Singers such as Samantha can pass along telepathically. Imagine being able to have memories of several centuries of human/'cat interaction and even more insight on how the 'cats interact between each other.

Talk about an ambassador between species. WOW.

That would be Scott McDallen; see the short story "The Stray" in [url]Worlds of Honor[/url]

SharkHunter wrote:Scott gets touched briefly, that is true. I'm talking about a full "mind on mind" link, with all the history SINCE, although that might blow the poor human's cranium to bits.

It's possible. Just need Spock to do it. It's called a Vulcan mind-meld.

Nice POV.

Although, the verdict isn't in on Raoul and Nimitz.