Duquesne and DuCain

Doing some research on upcoming books (nothing new found) and was looking over (again) the synopsis for House of Lies, with the rise of the PRH under the Duquesne plan.

I've always thought the pronunciation of Duquesne was closer to "dew-queens", but when I checked it out - it's pronounced like "dew-cain". Which, in turn, got me to thinking about Patrick DuCain and, from there, how Mesa has shown a propensity for having their agents in media positions (Audry O'Hanrahan, Baltasar Juppe, etc) and a Mesan agent in the Manticoran media (with associated contact sources in government) could provide a way to explain how Mesa has penetrated Manticore.

Is there a reasonable chance DuCain could be a Mesan agent, or is it stretching things too far that just the two names sound alike - there's a connection?

vernonlvincent wrote:Doing some research on upcoming books (nothing new found) and was looking over (again) the synopsis for House of Lies, with the rise of the PRH under the Duquesne plan.

I've always thought the pronunciation of Duquesne was closer to "dew-queens", but when I checked it out - it's pronounced like "dew-cain". Which, in turn, got me to thinking about Patrick DuCain and, from there, how Mesa has shown a propensity for having their agents in media positions (Audry O'Hanrahan, Baltasar Juppe, etc) and a Mesan agent in the Manticoran media (with associated contact sources in government) could provide a way to explain how Mesa has penetrated Manticore.

Is there a reasonable chance DuCain could be a Mesan agent, or is it stretching things too far that just the two names sound alike - there's a connection?

It's certainly possible, and I find it hard to believe that the MAlign would fail to have put people in both the Haven and Manticore media to support their agenda, and people whose families have been in place for centuries, not merely decades.

vernonlvincent wrote:Doing some research on upcoming books (nothing new found) and was looking over (again) the synopsis for House of Lies, with the rise of the PRH under the Duquesne plan.

I've always thought the pronunciation of Duquesne was closer to "dew-queens", but when I checked it out - it's pronounced like "dew-cain". Which, in turn, got me to thinking about Patrick DuCain and, from there, how Mesa has shown a propensity for having their agents in media positions (Audry O'Hanrahan, Baltasar Juppe, etc) and a Mesan agent in the Manticoran media (with associated contact sources in government) could provide a way to explain how Mesa has penetrated Manticore.

Is there a reasonable chance DuCain could be a Mesan agent, or is it stretching things too far that just the two names sound alike - there's a connection?

The point on the use of media to emplace Mesan agents is a very good one, and something I hadn't thought about previously. It does make some sense, as it lets the MAlignment set the terms of the conversation over decades or more.

As for DuCain, I can't see any clues in his appearances that he is a MAlignment agent, and given his importance I would think he would have been in the range of some treecats in the past decades...whcih might have given them a clue.

But I think you are probably incorrect on the DuQuense naming....I think RFC borrowed that from the old pulp SF author E.E. Smith, whose main bad guy/evil genius in the "Skylark of Space" series was Marc "Blackie" DuQuesne. Given that the MWW is around my age and has other references in his work to "Doc Smith's" work, I have a hunch that is where he got it from.

IMHO as always. YMMV.

Hutch wrote:

vernonlvincent wrote:Doing some research on upcoming books (nothing new found) and was looking over (again) the synopsis for House of Lies, with the rise of the PRH under the Duquesne plan.

I've always thought the pronunciation of Duquesne was closer to "dew-queens", but when I checked it out - it's pronounced like "dew-cain". Which, in turn, got me to thinking about Patrick DuCain and, from there, how Mesa has shown a propensity for having their agents in media positions (Audry O'Hanrahan, Baltasar Juppe, etc) and a Mesan agent in the Manticoran media (with associated contact sources in government) could provide a way to explain how Mesa has penetrated Manticore.

Is there a reasonable chance DuCain could be a Mesan agent, or is it stretching things too far that just the two names sound alike - there's a connection?

The point on the use of media to emplace Mesan agents is a very good one, and something I hadn't thought about previously. It does make some sense, as it lets the MAlignment set the terms of the conversation over decades or more.

As for DuCain, I can't see any clues in his appearances that he is a MAlignment agent, and given his importance I would think he would have been in the range of some treecats in the past decades...whcih might have given them a clue.

But I think you are probably incorrect on the DuQuense naming....I think RFC borrowed that from the old pulp SF author E.E. Smith, whose main bad guy/evil genius in the "Skylark of Space" series was Marc "Blackie" DuQuesne. Given that the MWW is around my age and has other references in his work to "Doc Smith's" work, I have a hunch that is where he got it from.

IMHO as always. YMMV.

Treecats only read emotions. If no one has asked DuCain if he is a member of the MAlign in the presence of a treecat, there might well of never been anything to raise suspicion of him, since his emotions won't spike under normally circumstances.

Hutch wrote:But I think you are probably incorrect on the DuQuense naming....I think RFC borrowed that from the old pulp SF author E.E. Smith, whose main bad guy/evil genius in the "Skylark of Space" series was Marc "Blackie" DuQuesne. Given that the MWW is around my age and has other references in his work to "Doc Smith's" work, I have a hunch that is where he got it from.

IMHO as always. YMMV.

I'm pretty sure on the pronunciation now that I've Googled/Bing'd/Alta Vista'd it. Both DuQuesne and DuCain and pronounced the same way - "dew-cain".

It's likely someone in the Manticoran government would have noticed the homophone-like similarity, but that seems a little obvious from a plot-hook standpoint. It's like having a character name Lou Siffer (Lucifer).

vernonlvincent wrote:

Hutch wrote:But I think you are probably incorrect on the DuQuense naming....I think RFC borrowed that from the old pulp SF author E.E. Smith, whose main bad guy/evil genius in the "Skylark of Space" series was Marc "Blackie" DuQuesne. Given that the MWW is around my age and has other references in his work to "Doc Smith's" work, I have a hunch that is where he got it from.

IMHO as always. YMMV.

I'm pretty sure on the pronunciation now that I've Googled/Bing'd/Alta Vista'd it. Both DuQuesne and DuCain and pronounced the same way - "dew-cain".

It's likely someone in the Manticoran government would have noticed the homophone-like similarity, but that seems a little obvious from a plot-hook standpoint. It's like having a character name Lou Siffer (Lucifer).

Given that DuQuesne lived a hundred years or so ago on Haven makes it a coincidence as far as the average Manticoran is concerned. Conspiracy theorists however can have a field day (and the MAlign reveak offers them a very fertile field)

fallsfromtrees wrote:

vernonlvincent wrote:Doing some research on upcoming books (nothing new found) and was looking over (again) the synopsis for House of Lies, with the rise of the PRH under the Duquesne plan.

I've always thought the pronunciation of Duquesne was closer to "dew-queens", but when I checked it out - it's pronounced like "dew-cain". Which, in turn, got me to thinking about Patrick DuCain and, from there, how Mesa has shown a propensity for having their agents in media positions (Audry O'Hanrahan, Baltasar Juppe, etc) and a Mesan agent in the Manticoran media (with associated contact sources in government) could provide a way to explain how Mesa has penetrated Manticore.

Is there a reasonable chance DuCain could be a Mesan agent, or is it stretching things too far that just the two names sound alike - there's a connection?

It's certainly possible, and I find it hard to believe that the MAlign would fail to have put people in both the Haven and Manticore media to support their agenda, and people whose families have been in place for centuries, not merely decades.

The Problem for the Malign in the Republic is that nasty Legislaturalist purge in the early days of the Committee for Public Safety. IIRC the bulk of the Starlines were established in that strata of the PRH not among the largely powerless and uneducated dolist classes.

vernonlvincent wrote:

Hutch wrote:But I think you are probably incorrect on the DuQuense naming....I think RFC borrowed that from the old pulp SF author E.E. Smith, whose main bad guy/evil genius in the "Skylark of Space" series was Marc "Blackie" DuQuesne. Given that the MWW is around my age and has other references in his work to "Doc Smith's" work, I have a hunch that is where he got it from.

IMHO as always. YMMV.

I'm pretty sure on the pronunciation now that I've Googled/Bing'd/Alta Vista'd it. Both DuQuesne and DuCain and pronounced the same way - "dew-cain".

It's likely someone in the Manticoran government would have noticed the homophone-like similarity, but that seems a little obvious from a plot-hook standpoint. It's like having a character name Lou Siffer (Lucifer).

Try having the name of a famous person. I went to HS with Bruce Wayne, Brain Adams, Roger Moore Steve McQueen and Carrie Fisher

There's a character in CSI Miami named DuQuesne. Check it out for pronounciation.

Hutch wrote:The point on the use of media to emplace Mesan agents is a very good one, and something I hadn't thought about previously. It does make some sense, as it lets the MAlignment set the terms of the conversation over decades or more.

As for DuCain, I can't see any clues in his appearances that he is a MAlignment agent, and given his importance I would think he would have been in the range of some treecats in the past decades...whcih might have given them a clue.

But I think you are probably incorrect on the DuQuense naming....I think RFC borrowed that from the old pulp SF author E.E. Smith, whose main bad guy/evil genius in the "Skylark of Space" series was Marc "Blackie" DuQuesne. Given that the MWW is around my age and has other references in his work to "Doc Smith's" work, I have a hunch that is where he got it from.

IMHO as always. YMMV.

I suspect that Patrick DuCain comes from a family of Havenite refugees who left Haven as refugees and later changed the spelling of the family name for reasons similar to those that impelled my Huguenot Pournelle ancestors who changed the spelling of the family name to Parnell when they arrived in England and later Ireland.