The Grand Alliance Grand Attack

kzt wrote:

JeffEngel wrote:I think the idea is that the SEM would be playing the role of the Soviet Union, presiding over little ex-SL fiefdoms under its thrall.

Pretty much. Lots of tiny little fiefdoms who are free to pursue whatever policy they want, as long as it's in Manticores interest.

SWM wrote:

Zakharra wrote:"Weird Harold"
You're missing the point that the size limitation only applies to "Not Friends;" Nearly every member of the GA is bigger than the GA will tolerate as "not friends" that self-identify as "Solarian" -- i.e. a successor state that has a grudge or thinks of itself as the seed of a "New Solarian League."

You're also ignoring the web of mutual defense treaties that will effectively expand the GA to the point where "too large" can be a very large chunk of the former Solarian League.

You're also discounting the Reformation of the Solarian League as an end result of "Destroying" the League; The Haven that is a member of the GA is NOT the same Haven Manticore spent a couple of decades at war with. A similar transformation in the basic structure of the League (if possible) could expect similar results. quote


Would mutual defense treaties be a requirement? If so, that might be a stickler. I don't think that many systems will join the GA/SEM, some will, but I don't see why many/most would. Nor do I think most would have mutual defense treaties with the SEM/GA either. Maybe some form of treaty that formalize the diplomatic relationship and allow for commerce to flow, but I don't see that many systems signing up to be official SEM /GA friends either. It shouldn't be a requirement and it would make sense that most don't sign up with the GA/SEM, but just have a 'we recognize you and will trade with you, and won't make war on you, but you leave us alone otherwise', from single systems up to larger multi-system entities. By that I'm not sure a reformed SL or large successor state would be a member of the GA either. The SEM might have to be satisfied with several large successor states, or a reformed SL (under new leadership) that acknowledges the SEM's right to exist and such, but is at least not at war or hostile to the SEM.

Weird Harold didn't say that all the successor states would have to sign mutual defense treaties with the GA. He said that there would be some nations signing mutual defense treaties with the GA, which would increase the power of the GA, which would let the GA raise the size limit on "too large".

Zakharra wrote: I can say I am hoping that some form of SL or SL successor state does still exist in the next story arc, despite the SEM/.GA, MAlign's efforts. And that it's not exactly an ally to the SEM/GA, just politely neutral.

Zakharra wrote:

SWM wrote:Weird Harold didn't say that all the successor states would have to sign mutual defense treaties with the GA. He said that there would be some nations signing mutual defense treaties with the GA, which would increase the power of the GA, which would let the GA raise the size limit on "too large".

I can see that to a point. I can see some of the systems near the SEM/GA signing up, and some opting to try and join the SEM/GA, but I don't see them doing it to the degree they give up their political independence. If the treaties require giving up that much control and the option of leaving the GA and/or forming their own multi-system alliances, such as a reborn SL successor state.. Eh. We'll see what RFC has planned.

I can say I am hoping that some form of SL or SL successor state does still exist in the next story arc, despite the SEM/.GA, MAlign's efforts. And that it's not exactly an ally to the SEM/GA, just politely neutral.

Relax wrote:*************************************************
Strat: Attack all SLN forces, leave SDF’s unless they choose to fight. Communicate this to all SL governments, telling them, “No, we do not personally hold your world responsible, for the action of a clique of unelected bureaucrats, but we do reserve the right to defend our selves by eliminating the dagger aimed our way by this cabal.”
***************************************************

Haven has already stated, it would use its missiles so Manticore can save their Apollo birds for those actually responsible for the second Havenite war and Oyster bay. In my previous post I showed that the whole “operation” could be accomplished in a long month with a mere 250 SD’P or so. That is roughly 25% of GA available capital ships. If one expanded the operations to two months, it could be done by a mere 100 RHN SD’P or so. Leaving 85%-90% home. Home defense is hardly an issue worth worrying about. Especially for the RHN, as it has had Moriarity deployed. RMN in Silesia/TQ does not. It is more imperative that RMN forces stay home compared to RHN forces.

It should be noted, it would not be difficult to put RHN pod based missiles in RMN space for local defense if one wished to. As noted by others, sharing such information to the RMN on RHN handshake protocols, SIGINT missile data when attacking, is a touchy subject. Politics hurdles to overcome as scientifically speaking, creating a modified handshake so RMN forces could use RHN missiles should be quite simple if given the framework structure code from the RHN. If this happened, effectively this would free up all of the RMN/GSN forces as well for offensive operations.

By using RHN’s missiles on Soalrian SD’s/BC’s, it now creates a power vacuum. The local SDF’s are now the preeminent knuckle duster in SL space. The major reason the GA will do this is so they can narrow down possible MALIGN associates. Divide and conquer. When these SDF’s start moving and new alliaTnces are formed will be giant blinking neon signs for who is with whom. The timing will give more away than anything else. This narrows down the possibilities because right now, they do not have a clue who is MALIGN and who is not. 2000 worlds with no GA presence on the ground for political wind shifting sniffing, is a giant problem for determining who is and is not MALIGN. Need more clues.

2 birds, one stone. Eliminate threat, and obtain information.

Shortage of hulls is not the problem currently. The problem is information on the MALIGN. In this case a near complete dearth of information.

kzt wrote:

JeffEngel wrote:I think the idea is that the SEM would be playing the role of the Soviet Union, presiding over little ex-SL fiefdoms under its thrall.

Pretty much. Lots of tiny little fiefdoms who are free to pursue whatever policy they want, as long as it's in Manticores interest.

fallsfromtrees wrote:As far as I can tell at this point, the GA knows about the Malign, but doesn't have a clue about the RF. When that appears it is going to seem to be exactly what the GA was after, a group of star nations arising out of the SL that isn't too large. And that may well be willing to sign a mutual defense treaty with the GA ) even though they plan on breaking it later).

n7axw wrote:

Relax wrote:*************************************************
Strat: Attack all SLN forces, leave SDF’s unless they choose to fight. Communicate this to all SL governments, telling them, “No, we do not personally hold your world responsible, for the action of a clique of unelected bureaucrats, but we do reserve the right to defend our selves by eliminating the dagger aimed our way by this cabal.”
***************************************************SNIP

Shortage of light combatants is a problem, but you are certainly right to say that information on the MAlaign is the big problem.

Don

akira.taylor wrote:My understanding of the Harrington Doctrine (which, I admit may be wrong) is that Manticore really doesn't want any power which will be able to simply dictate terms to its neighbors. As long as the significant powers look at each other and say "a war would be painful and expensive," things will be more or less okay. At least, if there are enough "significant powers." Now, one power might be able to take any given other power - but if it can't take them all (or even two or three) working together, it won't want to try (yes, there will be border skirmishes, crazy leaders, and similar stuff, but not OFS).

Does that make sense to everyone, or am I incomprehensible today?