Light bulb Captured Solly fleet

I read the last bit

I happen agree about the training. Classrooms in space is not economical in any way when the facilities already exist dirt side with unused space. A room is a room is a room. Unless training for space walking for say ship repairs. Then again with contra grav, I do not see why one could not have this planetside as well where the population is. If the TQ does not already have such a facility planetside, I do not see why anyone of them would not, as they all have space based manufacturing for the most part(exception nuncio, we know Dresden has quite a bit of space based infrastructure), may need to add additional rooms. Said SLN ships exist, could use part of them turning say the gym into a practice facility for 0g space walking. Boat bay procedures etc. Of course you could also use part of a orbital warehouse for the exact same thing.

Of course why would every planet not already have such practice facilities if they have orbital space facilities?

Most practice facilities are woefully under utilized where they spend the majority of their time idle.

I would expect such "training" facilities already exist on all planets making said SLN expensive ships redundant.

I would conclude that SLN ships will never be used as "training facilities" except to blow them up and practice damage control/damage repair.

Give them to other worlds? Let them learn on the fly? Sure why not. Could buy some goodwill. Thousands of planets out there with little more than pop guns who would be willing to buy them. Now how useful such ships would be to them on the other hand.

Relax wrote:
Every RMN ship in mothballs is going to be pulled out and utilized as it is better than SLN ... anything ... to cover their own territory.

As I have said all along. SLN ships will be sent to friendly Alliance worlds that currently have nothing(Entire SL, core, shell, prtotectorates) and will have nothing for many years to come. It is called on the job training for them. Ain't perfect, but it is better than waving a white flag.

SLN ships will not be used for "education centers".
SLN ships will not be used as hospitals where you cannot get to them in a timely fashion.
SLN ships will not be used as hospitals where your family cannot visit in a timely and INEXPENSIVE fashion.
SLN ships will not be used as hospitals when you can simply extract said equipment from the ship and install in pre existing HOSPITALS with pre existing hospital doctoral, nursing, orderly, outpatient care logistics paths.
SLN ships will not be used as hospitals where one cannot get two hospital beds past each other in the same hallway.

If anyone actually read this whole thing... Cheers.

wastedfly wrote:Essentially grunt farm labor who could not possibly harm anything is your example?

You have got to be kidding me.

I've met one or two children of those German POWs. Their mothers were American-born and the Fathers were naturalized citizens -- the story of how their parents met was interesting.

Those german "grunt farm labor" were technically traitors to Germany because they "gave aid and comfort to the enemy" and because the did not attempt to escape when they had the opportunity.

Very few of them were SS fanatics or Officers.

Weird Harold wrote:How long would you estimate it would take to build a six-hundred bed hospital? Or even 200 bed extensions to three existing hospitals.

The medical department of a warship should be able to treat up to ten percent of the crew; A solarian SD has a crew of "over 6,000." That's a 600 bed hospital that you want to deny the depressed economies of planets like Nuncio or Dresden.:

"Treat" is not the same as "hospitalize". Putting a band-aid on is treatment. And I suspect that on that basis I can open a 600 patient "hospital" in a large tent in about 20 minutes.

How many physicians do you really think there are on an SD? How many non-physician properly qualified medical staff? How many surgeons and operating rooms? How long do you think their supplies will last trying to treat thousands of people?

Modern US in-patient staff to occupied bed ratio is 3+ to 6+. So an actual 600 bed hospital requires from a minimum of 1800 to over 3600 staff. What percentage of a crew of 6000 is assigned to medical care?

Weird Harold wrote:

wastedfly wrote:Essentially grunt farm labor who could not possibly harm anything is your example?

You have got to be kidding me.

I've met one or two children of those German POWs. Their mothers were American-born and the Fathers were naturalized citizens -- the story of how their parents met was interesting.

Those german "grunt farm labor" were technically traitors to Germany because they "gave aid and comfort to the enemy" and because the did not attempt to escape when they had the opportunity.

Very few of them were SS fanatics or Officers.

Address the real part of my post. Go ahead.

kzt wrote:

"Treat" is not the same as "hospitalize". Putting a band-aid on is treatment. And I suspect that on that basis I can open a 600 patient "hospital" in a large tent in about 20 minutes.

How many physicians do you really think there are on an SD? How many non-physician properly qualified medical staff? How many surgeons and operating rooms? How long do you think their supplies will last trying to treat thousands of people?

Modern US in-patient staff to occupied bed ratio is 3+ to 6+. So an actual 600 bed hospital requires from a minimum of 1800 to over 3600 staff. What percentage of a crew of 6000 is assigned to medical care?

I do not believe Harold has ever seen the inside of a hospital. Unfortunately I have for a good portion of my life. My grandfather operated a 140 bed hospital. True, a long time ago, but the number of employees would still be about the same. For every bed, there were 2-3 employees depending on the time of the year. He was in a smaller city where "vacancy" rates(sorry I forget the proper term) were a fair percentage and had extra beds.

There is a reason the US navy has hospital ships. While there is a medical "office" aboard navy ships, the actual number of bunks on them other then in an emergency situation, are miniscule. His stated 10% is well, ignorant would be a kind term.

wastedfly wrote:I happen agree about the training. Classrooms in space is not economical in any way when the facilities already exist dirt side with unused space. A room is a room is a room.

The catch is "when the facilities already exist." I'm not proposing using the captured ships where "facilities already exist," I'm proposing to use them where the facilities do NOT exist

A room is only a room if the knowledge you wish to teach is in orbit.

The whole point of the suggestion is that many systems in the TQ do NOT have have the information contained in those computers nor do they have the systems to deliver that knowledge efficiently. The captured ships DO have that information and the technology to deliver it.

Weird Harold wrote:

wastedfly wrote:I happen agree about the training. Classrooms in space is not economical in any way when the facilities already exist dirt side with unused space. A room is a room is a room.

The catch is "when the facilities already exist." I'm not proposing using the captured ships where "facilities already exist," I'm proposing to use them where the facilities do NOT exist

A room is only a room if the knowledge you wish to teach is in orbit.

The whole point of the suggestion is that many systems in the TQ do NOT have have the information contained in those computers nor do they have the systems to deliver that knowledge efficiently. The captured ships DO have that information and the technology to deliver it.

Heard of this thing called a computer? It allows you to move files where you want! Hey, get this, the RMN, who, guess what?! Already has a navy with manuals etc, and by golly gee, said manuals are in Electronic form, can GIVE them to the TQ!

Wowsers! Like No Way!

I suspect the Andies would be glad to supply a shipload of some obsolete computers to the neo-barbarians of Talbott. Maybe is trade for a few of those otherwise useless ships and their armament?

I'm sorry Weird Harold, but I think you are absolutely wrong. I feel that you are under estimating the issues and problems with most of your ideas. Unfortunately, nobody can give any hard numbers one way or the other, because we just don't know. The only person who could is RFC, and if he hasn't given them to us by now, he probably won't.

I will point out that your mantra of "here, now, free" is partially false. It is true for Spindle, but that is one of the more advanced worlds of the Quadrant. To all of the other systems the ships are "there," and will not be here "until" you can find a crew willing, able, and trusted to transport them, after they have been stocked up on perishables and buckerage which "cost money."

I have a couple of questions, if you don't mind, so that we can get away from "IT WON'T WORK!!" "YES IT WILL!!" type of arguing.

How much time will it take to remove offensive weaponry so no "accidents" happen? Missiles can be fired out of the tubes at the Sun, but all of the energy weapons would need to be thoroughly demilled. Personally, I would shred them and stuff them out the gun port.

Once demilled, how many spacers do you need per ship to move it to the desired world?

If the bulk are going to be paroled SLN spacers, how many RMN/RMMC personnel will you need to assign to command/guard them?

How much are you paying the paroled spacers for their service, or are they going to be slave labor?

When the ship is in transit, what are you going to escort it with in case something happens?

Is all of the above going to be less resource use than sending a RMN capitol ship? Consider that RMN ships have always had smaller crews than any other navy.

How are the less advanced planets going to keep the ship fueled once it gets there? Considering they had navies consisting of LAC's I don't think they have that much fueling capacity on hand.

Aside from a 1 month head start, why is this a better idea than sending learning machines from Manticore in one of the merchant ships that are sitting around? They probably have some older models sitting in store rooms all around the system.

wastedfly wrote:Address the real part of my post. Go ahead.

What "real part"

The German POW farm workers were essentially unsupervised in the middle of the enemies food production, yet there was not one escape or incidence of sabotage.

Instead of trying to do maximum harm to their captors, they essentially requested asylum and citizenship.

That's essentially the same reaction I expect from a percentage of the SLN POWs because even as arrogant as Sollies are depicted the average Sollie is basically a decent human being.

wastedfly wrote:Heard of this thing called a computer? It allows you to move files where you want! Hey, get this, the RMN, who, guess what?! Already has a navy with manuals etc, and by golly gee, said manuals are in Electronic form, can GIVE them to the TQ!

What part off "Here, Now" are you having trouble with. Of course the RMN has a pot-load of computer files; The poorer systems don't have computers with the capacity to download them. The captures ships are right overhead, can STAY right over head, and can eventually provide computer capacity upgrades to hold all of the RMNs files as well as Haven's, Andermani's, and Solarian.

Right now, the only ones that can stay around long enough for you to build the computer capacity above pre-molycirc levels are the captured SLN ships.

If you have the capacity and facilities so that you don't need the hardware, download the information and pass the ship on to a system that needs the capacity and knowledge.